FFMP Test

[Big_Spinner]

Hi,

Here is the first opportunity to see if in fact the modifications to the FFMP are going to help.

The flows this April showed a flaw in the FFMP. When the reservoir was spilling, the release was 1500. When the reservoir stoped spilling the release dropped to 110 cfs. This cycled through a few times and caused some unexpected yo-yo effect. Inflows were still high and caused the reservoir to start spilling when releases were reduced.

After the April yo-yos, the decree parties discussed how to fix the problem and now is the time to see if the fix will work.

At the RFAC meeting the parties stated that NYC is going to use new release protocols that will eliminate the yo-yos. I am not terribly comfortable lettting NYC make unilateral decisions on flow protocol, but here is the time to see what happens.

All three reservoirs have or will stop spilling in the next couple of days. (Unless we get hammered with more boomers) Under FFMP the releases should drop from their max in L1a to L1b. This is what causes the yo-yo. The new protocol asks for releases to be tied to inflows. Inflow into Cannonsville is still about 1500 cfs, so if releases are dropped to 350, there will be some yo-yoing. NYC is supposed to adjust releases slowly, instead of the more rapid drop to 350.

So, let's keep an eye on what happens the next few days to see if FFMP is truly flexible.

By the way, fishing has been great to excellent the last few days!!

Jim

 

[tompg]

Is anyone familiar with the chain of command to open/close the valves at the dam? Who employs the person at the button?

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Is anyone familiar with the chain of command to open/close the valves at the dam? Who employs the person at the button?

The USGS office of the Delaware River Keeper was established after the 1954 US Supreme Court ruling. The river keeper is a USGS employee operating under strict guidelines of that decree. A quick Google search will give you lots of info regarding the river master's job.

 

[tompg]

I was under the impression that the river master had to request releases from NYC and that NYC owned and controlled the dam(s). In that scenario the river master has some "control" but no finger on the button so to speak. I want to know whose finger is on the button. USGS employee? NYC DEP employee? NYC Watershed employee? etc. Or did you tell me that already?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I was under the impression that the river master had to request releases from NYC and that NYC owned and controlled the dam(s). In that scenario the river master has some "control" but no finger on the button so to speak. I want to know whose finger is on the button. USGS employee? NYC DEP employee? NYC Watershed employee? etc. Or did you tell me that already?

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,
This link should give you some more info, but it likely does not fully answer your question as to political influences. The bottom line is that this person works for the USGS, but perhaps Big Spinner/Jim could give you some more insight. Here's that link: Welcome to the Office of the Delaware River Master

 

[tompg]

Thanks Rusty,

That was an interesting read. I wonder if there is only one river master and if he ever needs anyone to fill in when he takes time off. I am volunteering. Aside from all of the trout issues, this whole arrangement and the actual day-to-day operations fascinate me for some odd reason.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Thanks Rusty,

That was an interesting read. I wonder if there is only one river master and if he ever needs anyone to fill in when he takes time off. I am volunteering. Aside from all of the trout issues, this whole arrangement and the actual day-to-day operations fascinate me for some odd reason.

You're hired!

I often wonder how anyone can believe it is good for a river system to hit a switch the way they do. They often know days in advance when they need to raise or lower levels significantly yet they seem to have only two throttle controls - full blast or zero. The fish freak as do the hatches (not to mention the fishermen and local businesses). And for what reason? Ramp the flows up and then ramp the flows back down. And if your reservoirs are full or nearly full and it is supposed to rain a lot in the near future, release more water now, don't wait for the top to spill over hard all the time. This year is a joke with annual rainfall at only "average" (I understand it has mostly come recently), and the reservoirs higher than they are any other "average" year by far.

I've often said aloud that a trained monkey could do a better job guessing than what we see as the end result and I'm sure you are far more qualified than that trained monkey

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi guys,

As usual, if it is run by government, it is incredibly complicated.

The Rivermasters job is to maintain the Montague Target. They actually do a pretty good job of adhering to the interpretation of the Supreme Court decree. Basically, it says to keep a minimum flow at Montague of 1750 cfs. There are some other minor things, but that is the Rivermasters basic job.

When there is lots of natural flow, there is not much to make sure happens.

The Rivermasters office, seven days a week all year make a calculation for flow and then determine if NYC releases will be needed. They project out two days, this is hte travel time from the reservoirs to Montague. If water is needed, they call NYC DEP and ask for the appropriate release.

NYC DEP has control of the dams and have their finger on the button, so to speak. In reality it is all automaticlaly driven and can be operated remotely.

NYS DEC also hase some water requirements. This was especially true under Revision 7, prior to FFMP. If NYS DEC felt a need for thermal release, they would also call NYC DEP and ask for a release.

Now, under FFMP, the release schedule is pre-programmed and you can look at the release table and determine what the release will be. There are of course exceptions.

We are currentl in one of those exceptions. The release table shows a release of 1500 if Cannonsvill is spilling or near spilling and 350 if it is not. Well, it stopped spilling today. The release is still 1500. This is to attempt, as I explained earlier, to eliminate the yo-yoing.

There are other exceptions and changes.

The release table shows a release of 260 as a minimum in the summer during normal operations. This was temporarily changed to 325 by decree vote. The increase was allowed because the down basin states have allowed the use of some of their water on a temporary basis. More complicated than that, but that will work for now!!

The rivermasters website has an explaination of FFMP and the tables I mentioned. The tables are based on Total reservoir storage in all three reservoirs and also individual storage. If total storage is high, but one of the reservoirs is low, releases will be different for each reaservoir.

Jim

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Rusty,

You say this year is a joke and I do not understand what you mean?

Your simple explanation as to what should happen is pretty much what FFMP is based on.

When there is lots of water in the reservoirs (now), release more water (1500 cfs on WB and 700 on EB) and when there is less water, release less.

The ramping rate is over three days for FFMP related releases. This is up for three days or down for three days. This is better than we had, but seven days is more natural ramping down.

The current plan now tries to imitate more natural flow on the down ramping side. We will be able to see how it operates over the next few days. Under the old system, releases would already be starting down to 350 cfs on the WB since the reservoir stopped spilling.

Jim

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi,

The drop in release has begun.

The test will be to see if they complete the drop in three days, as in FFMP, or release more slowly over several days.

The inflow into Cannonsville is still about 1000 cfs, so this is the ideal time to see if they try to match the inflow instead of a more rapid decrease that would result in yo-yos again.

Will keep you all posted.

Jim

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Hi Rusty,

You say this year is a joke and I do not understand what you mean?

Your simple explanation as to what should happen is pretty much what FFMP is based on.

When there is lots of water in the reservoirs (now), release more water (1500 cfs on WB and 700 on EB) and when there is less water, release less.

The ramping rate is over three days for FFMP related releases. This is up for three days or down for three days. This is better than we had, but seven days is more natural ramping down.

The current plan now tries to imitate more natural flow on the down ramping side. We will be able to see how it operates over the next few days. Under the old system, releases would already be starting down to 350 cfs on the WB since the reservoir stopped spilling.

Jim

Jim,

While I agree with you that they are making slow progress, the month of May saw basically 225 releases on the WB with nearly full reservoirs until June 1 when Cannonsville was full and then they ramped the release up to 1500 - not to mention the spillover. Why can't they increase the L1 release levels? Had they done so we could have had higher releases during May and lower releases then needed for the past several weeks. IMO they need to re-write all of the release levels and base them on reality which is not what the city of NY has allowed to date. We all know what the city's usage is, why are they allowed to factor in unused water just to horde it? At no time has the city been in danger of a water shortage since possibly the big drought of the 60s (forget that one extremely dry year).

I'm just glad to see my state (NJ) finally taking NYC to task over these flows. PA and NY DEC have been a total joke. I think we're on the precipous of seeing NJ take the big city back to court to prove to them that the 1954 Decree is being interpreted incorrectly by the city. That's just my two cents. This is no longer my fight, but I do receive every email from most every group involved so I remain "in the loop". I just have to keep my focus on the Musky knowing folks like yourself and others are continuing to work hard. It's just NYC that gets my goat, so to speak...and all of the science we can throw at them will not change anything significantly enough for my liking. We need to revisit this in court, I'm afraid.

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Rusty,

Well stated.

I agree that we still need to get bigger numbers into the matrix.

Certainly May needs improvement.

April yo yos between 1500 and 110 are no good for the river.

Even the L2 minimum release of 80 for most of the winter, needs a boost.

I think that as NYC sees these improvements implemented one at a time, they will see it can be done safely.

As long as we keep chipping away, it is forward progress.

I hope that just the pressure of a lawsuit will help the process, as an actual suit will delay action for years and we may be forced back to Revision 1.

As you say, progress is being made, and I hope that it continues forward.

One thing that could help is to make graduated releases when the reservoir is spilling. Instead of the big jump to 1500, perhaps 500, 1000, 1500 (or some combo) depending on the level of the reservoir and spill amount. This will save cold water and help to lessen the yo-yo. This may also allow for more water to be used at a later time.

Jim

Jim

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi guys,

Looks like NYC has responded to the yo-yo problem in a positive way.

The release on the WB and EB was lowered some and then allowed to stabilize again or a couple of days. Hopefully, this will continue as the rivers are ramped down to their summer release levels..

We still are pushing for more water to be put in the FFMP matrix, but that is another fight.

One piece at a time as long as it is all in the right direction.

Jim

 

[Rusty Spinner]

One thing that could help is to make graduated releases when the reservoir is spilling. Instead of the big jump to 1500, perhaps 500, 1000, 1500 (or some combo) depending on the level of the reservoir and spill amount. This will save cold water and help to lessen the yo-yo. This may also allow for more water to be used at a later time.

Jim

Jim

From your lips to God's ears!

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi guys,

Midterm Grade of C-

It looked like the ramping problem was nearing a resolution, and it still may be, but DEP fell down on the job.

The ramp down over the last 36 hours was all accomplished in one fast decline from 1100 to 340 cfs on the West Branch.

Pepacton was done over 3 ramp down periods and was quite a bit better.

Although a drop from 1000 to 340 can seem extreme and I am in no way advocating for it, the river is in great shape. 340 release and 600+ at Hale Eddy prevented the ramp down from being more severe.

Natural flow ramp down occurs over about 7 - 10 days.

DEP ramped down on the WB in about 5 days with the big hit from 1000 to 340, although not terribly damaging, it could have been done much better.

Will keep you posted.

Jim