Leader loops vs. Nail knots

[Burtbords149]

When recently fishing the BK a friend and long time fly fisher commented on my use of leader loop for a leader to fly line connection saying "It's ok for nymphing but has it's negative effects" I'm not a very good listening and forget the specific cons mentioned.

Anyway I've always preferred a loop because its ease and speed on the river. What do you folks use and why? And if you have any feel free to list some pros and cons of each.

 

[Pete]

I've mentioned this in other "leader" topocs....
I generally use a nail knot, to attach a semi-permanent leader butt section to the line. The other end of this section has a small perfection loop for "loop to loop" connections to the rest of the leader.

A coat or two of rubber cement or "knot sense" is used to streamline the nail knot (form a "football" shape"), so it won't get caught in the guides. A drop on the knot portion of the loop, is used to make it more secure.

Why?
Over the years tried lots of gimmicks and devices that are supposed to make this easier, most turned out to be troublesome. Eventually, I stopped trying every new "innovation" they try to sell.... Knots work fine.

 

[NJFred]

Neither.

Best method I have found is to use a crazy glue splice.

It's a fast and secure method. No loops for flies to get hung up upon. No knot so one can fearlessly reel the connection into the guides when landing fish as there is no risk of a break off with a last ditch run by the fish and a knot hanging on the guides.

 

[AKSkim]

Square knots are the best.

Retains 93.2% of its strength.

My second favourite knot is a "granny knot." Thats when you mis-tie a square knot.

But for overall fly fishing, you still can't beat a bowline.

Bowlines are also great when you go to moor your Buccaneer sail boat.

AK Skim

 

[Corndog]

Square knots are the best.

Retains 93.2% of its strength.

My second favourite knot is a "granny knot." Thats when you mis-tie a square knot.

But for overall fly fishing, you still can't beat a bowline.

Bowlines are also great when you go to moor your Buccaneer sail boat.

AK Skim

I only use the square knot to tie my stringer of trout to an exposed tree root, which usually ends up being a granny anyway.

How many masts would you prefer.

Burt, I use Surgeons Loops, but what Fred said draws my interest.

Cdog

 

[Andy B]

This post is like beating a dead horse. To me the nail knot is simple to tie on and off stream. A tool which is still sold today is the tie fast nail knot tool. with a little practice it only take about 15 to twent seconds. After awhile you should be able to tie a nail knot in your sleep. Also a nail knot and the crazy glue splice does allow the maximum energy flow from fly line to leader to tippet to fly. Now the loop connectors are a nice idea and I have tried them and do not like them. Some of the loop connectors do get soaked and do pull down the leader. This is an issue when your dry fly fishing. The loop connectors are around and have been for awhile. There are some people who want it quick and easy, some truly do have a hard time tying knots and others are just lazy. To me this is a topic what ever floats your boat and makes you feel comfortable. I like nail knots and others don't. Eaither way you go is just fine.

Andy Brasko

 

[NJFred]

CDOG,

Works great. I will say the only disadvantage is if you are into changing leaders all the time... something I never bought into or frankly was too lazy to do.

I do tie my own 1/2 leaders so that when I need to rebuild the leader I can simply cut the old leader in half and tie on a piece that allows the leader to cast and turnover well.


CDOG.. here's the technique lifted from another web site.

AL'S KRAZY GLUE SPLICE

Contributed by Erik Cronk

Pour finger nail polish remover (containing acetone) into the cap and put at least 3/8 inch of the end of the fly line into the liquid and let it soak for about 20 seconds before
stripping the coating of the fly line off with your finger nail. Then trim the exposed core to about 3/8 inch and enlarge the hollow core with a larger than normal pin-I use an old hat pin. Push the butt of the leader up into the exposed fly line core and wipe a drop of Krazy Glue onto the connection. Wet your thumb and forefinger and roll the connection around. Wipe a second drop on the opposite side of the connection and again roll the connection around to thoroughly penetrate the connection with glue. Do not use too much glue. Al Caucci, who developed the splice, said to be sure to use the Original Formula Krazy Glue (with a K) in the leak proof, air tight case from Borden. Some other CA glues, such as Zap-A-Gap, have failed.

 

[NJpatbee]

I have turned to the leader loops since they are easier and quicker (for me), but I know that they are not quite as good as the nail knot, which can take me several tries and usually about 10-15 minutes to tie. I will use a nail knot and attach a semi-permanent thick diameter mono loop during the pre-season which is better in the short-term than the Cortland type line-leader loop (which I also use).

If I could tie a nail knot in 20 seconds that would be my choice.

 

[Corndog]

CDOG,

Works great. I will say the only disadvantage is if you are into changing leaders all the time... something I never bought into or frankly was too lazy to do.

I do tie my own 1/2 leaders so that when I need to rebuild the leader I can simply cut the old leader in half and tie on a piece that allows the leader to cast and turnover well.


CDOG.. here's the technique lifted from another web site.

AL'S KRAZY GLUE SPLICE

Contributed by Erik Cronk

Pour finger nail polish remover (containing acetone) into the cap and put at least 3/8 inch of the end of the fly line into the liquid and let it soak for about 20 seconds before
stripping the coating of the fly line off with your finger nail. Then trim the exposed core to about 3/8 inch and enlarge the hollow core with a larger than normal pin-I use an old hat pin. Push the butt of the leader up into the exposed fly line core and wipe a drop of Krazy Glue onto the connection. Wet your thumb and forefinger and roll the connection around. Wipe a second drop on the opposite side of the connection and again roll the connection around to thoroughly penetrate the connection with glue. Do not use too much glue. Al Caucci, who developed the splice, said to be sure to use the Original Formula Krazy Glue (with a K) in the leak proof, air tight case from Borden. Some other CA glues, such as Zap-A-Gap, have failed.

Thanks Fred, I'm going to give it a try. Sounds interesting.

Cdog

 

[NJFred]

Great... let us know how it works.

It's a little difficult to have great trust in it at first but a soundly made splice will hold the leader for an entire season of fishing and then some. I replace mine once a year and have never lost a fish to the leader coming unglued!

Good Luck

 

[AKSkim]

and have never lost a fish to the leader coming unglued! Good Luck

LeadDog always comes unglued when he is out fishing.

Everybody knows that.

 

[Corndog]

LeadDog always comes unglued when he is out fishing.

Everybody knows that.

Where's my duct tape!

Cdog

 

[Corndog]

Great... let us know how it works.

It's a little difficult to have great trust in it at first but a soundly made splice will hold the leader for an entire season of fishing and then some. I replace mine once a year and have never lost a fish to the leader coming unglued!

Good Luck

Fred,

How do you roll it between your finger and thumb without getting your finger and thumb stuck together?

C(onfused)dog

 

[Future Fanatic]

Fred,

How do you roll it between your finger and thumb without getting your finger and thumb stuck together?

C(onfused)dog

Cdog,
Please post a photo of you at the emergency room getting the leader sliced from your finger tips...

Good one, NJFred...

( I use the Krazy glue splice(3-4 years now), and have had no trouble with it.)

 

[Corndog]

Cdog,
Please post a photo of you at the emergency room getting the leader sliced from your finger tips...

Good one, NJFred...

( I use the Krazy glue splice(3-4 years now), and have had no trouble with it.)

LOL Had a blond moment. Thanks for setting me straight FF. I know...I know...that's why you're "The Teacher".

Cdog

 

[AKSkim]

"The Teacher". Cdog

IlliterateDog:

Your luck you would go back to school and end up in Professor Turguson's class.

As always, careful what teacher you choose.

AK Skim

 

[NJFred]

CDOG...

How do I keep my fingers from being stuck? I first roll the connection between my lips and when i managed to rip it loose I never seem to have a problem with my fingers!

Actually it's the "the wet your fingers part" The water cures the glue so it harden's quickly and does not stick to your fingers.

 

[Corndog]

CDOG...

How do I keep my fingers from being stuck? I first roll the connection between my lips and when i managed to rip it loose I never seem to have a problem with my fingers!

Actually it's the "the wet your fingers part" The water cures the glue so it harden's quickly and does not stick to your fingers.

I guess I didn't get my fingers wet enough. It's going to be so embarasing explaining the reason I have my fly rod and reel with me at the emergency room.

Cdog

 

[Joe D]

This post is like beating a dead horse. To me the nail knot is simple to tie on and off stream. A tool which is still sold today is the tie fast nail knot tool. with a little practice it only take about 15 to twent seconds. After awhile you should be able to tie a nail knot in your sleep. Also a nail knot and the crazy glue splice does allow the maximum energy flow from fly line to leader to tippet to fly. Now the loop connectors are a nice idea and I have tried them and do not like them. Some of the loop connectors do get soaked and do pull down the leader. This is an issue when your dry fly fishing. The loop connectors are around and have been for awhile. There are some people who want it quick and easy, some truly do have a hard time tying knots and others are just lazy. To me this is a topic what ever floats your boat and makes you feel comfortable. I like nail knots and others don't. Eaither way you go is just fine.

Andy Brasko

Well said, Andy. Coffee stirrers work well too, just stuff the tag end through the tube. This is a topic that gets some people unglued and others all tied in knots.

 

[Mayfly]

None of the two choices. I use a Crazy Glue splice. It's never failed. Because it's perfectly smooth, unlike nail knots or loops, it does not get hung up or hinged in any guide or the tip top.

Allan

 

[Mayfly]

How do you roll it between your finger and thumb without getting your finger and thumb stuck together?

C(onfused)dog

Saliva!

Allan

 

[Big Bushkill]

I use to tie a nail knot but now I am just to lazy and to not see a purpose.

 

[Corndog]

Super glue works great...I'm sticking to it.

Cdog

 

[NJFred]

Atta boy CDOG!

Many advantages to the Crazy Glue Splice. Best yet you won't mess around changing leaders all the time!

Good luck and may all your flies stay dry and you land many fish that squeal like pigs!

 

[tomfly]

I do not use either. I use a braded leader glued directly to the fly Line.

 

[danme]

Leader Loops nail Knots -- They both work very well -- They both make the transition from line to leader very smoothe going through the guides.

If you do use a Braided LOOP I would highly suggest a single drop of Crazy Glue or equivelant at the entry point to stop fraying of the Braid/chinese finger and some good ole' fashion piece of mind

Peace And Tight Lines

Dan

 

[Andy]

Dave Whitlock is a big advocate of the Krazy Glue (he uses Zap-A-Gap) line-to-leader splice. He even markets a kit to facilitate the process. I've tried it and agree that it makes the perfect connection. However, I don't trust it and have gone back to the nail knot which has never failed. The negative things about loop-to-loop connections is I don't believe they allow as delicate a presentation for my casting style, and the extra bulk of the loops collects slime and drifting moss more easily and is more prone to hang-up when a fish runs into the weeds. The nail knot minimizes that, but I've even had instances where drifting moss and weeds accumulated on that connection and wouldn't allow me to slide long leaders through the tip-top guide so I could land a fish.