Bad knots

[EdG]

I'm new to fly fishing, and thought I was following directions when tying my fly on to the tippet w/ a clinch knot. But I am obviousy doing something wrong, as I am losing flies simply from casting (no snags, etc.).
I am threading the tippet through, creating the first loop, wrapping 4-6 times, going through the first loop, then the second, and finally tightening it up.
Any ideas on what could be going wrong?
Thanks in advance.
Ed

 

[Pete]

First of all, use 6 turns every time. Fewer turns only apply to very heavy "bite tippets" used for pike or saltwater, not normal tippets.

What's "going wrong", is most likely that the knot isn't being tightened up properly.

Try lubricating the knot with saliva before you tighten it, and pull from the tippet (not the tag), Double check that it's snug.

 

[bkill]

It sounds like you are tying the Improved clinch knot correctly...I will add the following;

Make sure you moisten your knot prior to pulling tight...Use 6 turns for tippets 5X and above and 5 turns for tippets below 5X...

As for your break offs...It can be your knot tying or it may be your casting that is causing the break offs...Are you hearing "snapping of a whip" sounds on your forward cast?

 

[Agust]

If you are using fluorocarbon a clinch not will not suffice. I don't use it, so you'll need to get advice from others if thats the case.

If you are using mono, make sure you spit on the knot before tightening. Mono weakens when it gets hot, and it gets hot from friction. Spit and tightening slowly make a huge difference.

Also make sure you are using heavy enough tippet. If you are using size 14 or 16 flies, you should not be using 6x tippet. If you are consider going up to 5x, or change to a different knot. you can modify the clinch a little by going through the eye twice and wrapping 6-8 times to compensate but in general just going up in tippet will help.

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi,

If the knot is coming loose, there will be a curly Q at the end of the line.

If the line is breaking from a bad cast, there will not be a curly Q.

I agree with at least 6 turns and moistening the line before you tighten.

Do not be afraid to really tightenn down on it, better to have it slip then rather then while fishing.

Jim

 

[Karel]

I moved to using the figure 8 or Davy know. When I break off (snagg mostly), the clinch know breaks first when I fish with a dropper (clinch knot to attach dropper on the bend).

Give it a try. It's also much smaller and faster to tie. But don't forget lubrication!

Just my 2c.

Tight Lines

 

[EdG]

Wow...lots of great advice, which I will put to use. Thanks to each one of you.
Ed

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi,

http://www.itinerantangler.com/podcasts/2006/02/video_archive_how_to_tie_the_d.html

Good video on tying the Dave Knot

Jim

 

[coolkyle]

Do you sound like Zorro at the end of your back-cast? Casting forward too early creates a whip-like momentum that can shred tippet. This is also tough on flies. Last month my buddy's fly was totally mangled even though he was skunked...

 

[frogge]

Hey,
been there, done that. Check my questions from two years ago and you will find I had a similar problem. I suspect your problem is your casting and that you are snapping the fly off on the back cast. You can figure it out by testing your knots and watching your back cast. Tie a fly onto 4x tippet and hook something solid. Pull on the tippet until it breaks. This will tell you if the knot comes unravelled and will give you an indication of how hard you can pull before it breaks. Try different knots and see what seems to work. My reading says the mono loop has the best strength. I use the Davy knot because it is fast to tie. I stongly expect you are snapping the fly off since usuallly you know if you break a fly off since you have to hook something pretty good. Check out Loren Williams website, Traditional Fly Fishing Guide Salmon River-Pulaski and Syracuse areas of New York: Salmon/Steelhead/Inland Trout guiding photos articles . He doesn't use flouro on trout and thus neither do I. If indeed you are snapping the fly off, this can be corrected by watching you back cast and waiting long enough before you start your forward cast. Hope this helps. Hang in there and you will get it. Toodles,Frogge.

 

[JeffK]

I used to have horrible luck with fluorocarbon tippets and knots, but I have heard good things about the new Rio Fluoroflex. Bought a spool of 6x for tough situations and will see how it does.

In my simple experiments I can't see much difference between fluorocarbon and regular mono. Tie a fly to each and put them in a glass of water - I don't see a difference. English guys swear by rubbing the tippet with a little mud to take off the shine - seems to be a reasonable idea. Fluorocarbon is also significantly denser than nylon so it has a better chance of sinking in the film. A tippet sitting on the surface makes a have bright line in the sun, so sinking a little can help. But then again, using a wetting agent on the tippet helps that (fyi, dish soap is a great wetting again - use almost none or it will gunk up). I too was disenchanted with fluorocarbon and nylon will work better taking care of the details. However, being the sucker I am, will give the new fluoro a second chance.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I used to have horrible luck with fluorocarbon tippets and knots, but I have heard good things about the new Rio Fluoroflex. Bought a spool of 6x for tough situations and will see how it does.

Jeff - I bought some where they didn't have Frog Hair tippet and I hate it! I'll give it to the next person I see. Same 6X Rio Fluoroflex. I like Rio leaders, but not this tippet material for many reasons. Your mileage may vary...

In my simple experiments I can't see much difference between fluorocarbon and regular mono. Tie a fly to each and put them in a glass of water - I don't see a difference. English guys swear by rubbing the tippet with a little mud to take off the shine - seems to be a reasonable idea. Fluorocarbon is also significantly denser than nylon so it has a better chance of sinking in the film. A tippet sitting on the surface makes a have bright line in the sun, so sinking a little can help. But then again, using a wetting agent on the tippet helps that (fyi, dish soap is a great wetting again - use almost none or it will gunk up). I too was disenchanted with fluorocarbon and nylon will work better taking care of the details. However, being the sucker I am, will give the new fluoro a second chance.

Here's my take on the mono - vs - fluoro debate. I use fluoro (only - no mono) in saltwater because it is a faster sinking line and disappears better under water where I am fishing in the salt. And I only use mono for dry fly trout fishing. I sometimes use fluoro for my trout nymphing (for the same reasons as salt). I have had fluoro drag my small dry flies when it gets "heavy", so I don't use it for dries.

But I only use knots like the improved clinchw/ fluoro. Fluoro slips more than mono when using the same knots. I also strongly agree with all those who use spit and tighten slowly. I have a motto I completely rely on no matter how bad I want to start casting - if I feel that the knot I just tied is not perfect, I cut it off and re-tie. I can't say enough what a difference that makes for your landing stats versus hooking stats...

 

[eddavidson9]

But I only use knots like the improved clinchw/ fluoro. Fluoro slips more than mono when using the same knots.

I know this has been brought up before, but I thought the "improved" clinch was not a great choice for fluoro? I use a standard clinch with fluoro (as well as another knot posted here somwhere...cant remember what it's called...for larger flies/streamers) for nymphs, eggs, etc.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

I haven't noticed any difference in knot strength between fluoro and mono when tying an improved clinch. Like Rusty and others as well, I use fluoro for nymphing and mono for dries. For 5x and larger the improved clinch is my go-to knot. I've landed hard fighting fish with no problems with the knot at all. I have noticed that on smaller tippet the improved clinch does seem to break every now and then. For 6x and smaller I've started using the trilene knot and that seems to be a bit stronger.
Here's a youtube vid.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/caBp8-xTxm0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/caBp8-xTxm0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[EdG]

The good advice keeps rolling in...many thanks!
Ed

 

[coolkyle]

Just to reiterate, if your casting stinks it doesn't matter what knot you use.