I've been experimenting for quite a while with the significance of fly color in "matching the hatch" situations and simply put I've found it to be almost completely irrelevant. Just this past week for example was casting to a 14 1/2 wild brown feeding selectively on sz 16 sulpher spinners....threw at him 16 sulpher parachute, 16 sulpher parachute with a thinner body, and 18 sulpher parachute...exact imitations, perfect drag-free drifts and refusal after refusal of these exact imitations...then threw on a cdc rusted brown/light brown spiral comparadun and this selectively feeding wild trout gobbles it greedily after close inspection...missed him on the set and subsequently caught the tree behind me losing that fly...tie on a cdc mosquito comparadun (black and white spiraled)...give the fish 5 minutes before casting to him again...and once again readily took after inspection however this time stuck him on the set and brought the 14 1/2in wild brown to hand. This is a heavily pressured river..in the most heavily pressured pool on that river...casting to a streamborn nice sized wild trout feeding selectively on 16 sulpher spinners whom after repeated refusals on exact imitations in parachute, I got to take two separate CDC comparaduns in colors far from the distinctive "sulpher yellow" in slow moving water after scrutinization...and again this is just one of a plethora of times where this exact same situation has occured. Comparadun has a closer resemblence to a spinner as it rides a little lower than a parachute which is what I feel made the difference, but fly color has consistently been almost entirely insignificant. I say almost entirely because if I were throwing lets say a bright pink colored CDC Comparadun to "match the hatch" as opposed to a tan or gray then maybe there would be a bit of varience as the color is so completely outlandish and gaudy in comparison to what you're attempting to "match" that it could be potentially off-putting. Size, Shape, Stage of emergence, and most importantly a smooth, accurate, drag-free presentation are what truly matters when throwing dries...color on the other hand, as long as it's not something completely ridiculous, is of little to no substantive value and really has more to do with personal security on behalf of the angler than it does on behalf of the fish. Long story short if an angler has the Size, Shape, Stage of Emergence, and Presentation correct you will still be productive even when throwing a "wrong colored" adams pattern during an olives hatch...furthermore the last time I looked at the underside of an actual Light Cahill mayfly I didn't see a size 12 brown hook jutting out of it's abdomen, which any slow water scrutinizing trout undoubtedly sees in the counterfeit version, yet still chooses to take the fly anyway despite this blatant "flaw in cosmetics"...feel free to weigh-in.
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Fly Color...
- Thread starter MT319
- Start date
NJpatbee
Can be found on NJ/NY/PA waters!
In my opinion, the importance of the color of fly depends on the type of drift over a trout and the stage of the insect. Vince Marinaro believed that color was insignificant with his prominent winged thorax hackled dun, which may be true for a trout on the Letort holding and feeding in one position looking upstream and eating duns. On many of the freestone waters that I fish the trout may come sideways a couple of feet or approach the fly from behind. It can only help to have a reasonable color match if the fly is viewed from multiple angles and not just head on with the wings appearing first. Flush floating flies like Comaparduns or Spinners allow the color to show vividly, and at times the trout can be fairly picky.
I have found that in low water conditions such as Summer and Fall, color may be more important. A good example are the Tiny Blue Winged Olives, where I have gone fishless not recognizing the hatch, but once I did and switched color, the fish were all over the fly. Also, the Sulphur hatch can vary quite a bit, and I carry several shades from Sulphur Yellow to almost orange. Sometimes, it makes a big difference.
There are times when an Adams will work fine for a hatch of Quill Gordons or Blue Quills, especially in faster moving water. It is always difficult to tell what the difference is between a strike and a refusal - the fly may be too big, drag, etc., so it can't hurt to have a good match of the natural.
One last point if you fish heavily fished waters like the lower Beaverkill or Ken Lockwood Gorge, check the colors sold by the local shops, and then tie your own with a different shade variation to show the trout something new.
I have found that in low water conditions such as Summer and Fall, color may be more important. A good example are the Tiny Blue Winged Olives, where I have gone fishless not recognizing the hatch, but once I did and switched color, the fish were all over the fly. Also, the Sulphur hatch can vary quite a bit, and I carry several shades from Sulphur Yellow to almost orange. Sometimes, it makes a big difference.
There are times when an Adams will work fine for a hatch of Quill Gordons or Blue Quills, especially in faster moving water. It is always difficult to tell what the difference is between a strike and a refusal - the fly may be too big, drag, etc., so it can't hurt to have a good match of the natural.
One last point if you fish heavily fished waters like the lower Beaverkill or Ken Lockwood Gorge, check the colors sold by the local shops, and then tie your own with a different shade variation to show the trout something new.
Trouser Trout
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
That is a very well thought out hypothesis which is "100% true a lot of the time".
NJFred
Trout Hunter
Would agree that typically size, shape and stage of emergence is most important however color does matter probably more often than not. I have seen too many occasions where the first three are correct but the color is off and the fish won't take the fly. Then I get the color correct and the fish takes.
BTW... I have also seen situations, most notably in the spring when paraleps and hendriksons are about. Any fly fished in the colors of the naturals was eaten. Size, shape and stage didn't seem to matter.
I will also say that a rusty spinner or in your case the comparadun (which I agree can look like a spinner, even an upright spinner) often will catch fish. In my opinion because they are almost always on the water as many mayflys have this color as spinners.
BTW... I have also seen situations, most notably in the spring when paraleps and hendriksons are about. Any fly fished in the colors of the naturals was eaten. Size, shape and stage didn't seem to matter.
I will also say that a rusty spinner or in your case the comparadun (which I agree can look like a spinner, even an upright spinner) often will catch fish. In my opinion because they are almost always on the water as many mayflys have this color as spinners.
afishinado
Fishizzle, I use worms but I'm looking to upgrade!
Often I've found that the exact shade of color doesn't really matter with darker or lighter insects in muted colors (dark gray vs. dark brown, vs. dark olive). An Adams (in the right size) will take fish as well for a BWO hatch or Blue qiulls which are dark flies. The same for lighter flies; the exact shades of cream, yellow and tan flies matter little.
Color does matter in the case of a brighter distinct color, like say the bright green of an apple caddis. The fish actually seem to key in on the color. During this hatch, I have fished a tattered battered (from catching fish) bright green fly and as long as the some green was left on the hook, the fly didn't really matter. A perfectly tied fly in another color would be totally ignored. The color IS the trigger in this case.
Long and short, sometimes (even many times) color means nothing, but also there are times when color means everything. Good post.
Color does matter in the case of a brighter distinct color, like say the bright green of an apple caddis. The fish actually seem to key in on the color. During this hatch, I have fished a tattered battered (from catching fish) bright green fly and as long as the some green was left on the hook, the fly didn't really matter. A perfectly tied fly in another color would be totally ignored. The color IS the trigger in this case.
Long and short, sometimes (even many times) color means nothing, but also there are times when color means everything. Good post.
I've already been putting this theory to the test for a while now which is what i'm basing my assertions on...about 3 years ago was at my home river in a pool right near the road when a guy i'd fished with a week earlier drove by on his way up to the delaware pulled over and is like I got a bunch of CDC on me that i'm about to throw out so since I saw you over there I figured I'd see if you wanted them first...so i'm like yea definitely..and that's how I got ahold of all these CDC comparaduns. At the time I was 22 and as a college student I didn't have much money to spend on flies to begin with so I was already fishing with a meager arsenal...and since this guy gave me this bag full of cdc I threw a few in my box to occassionally fu*k around with, clean out hook eyes, etc. That being said between then and now when I couldn't get trout to take parachutes..particularly when they're keying in on emergers or spinners..I've thrown these things on, in whatever random colors I happened to have on hand, and they've been absolutely dominant even amongst the pickiest and most heavily pressured trout i've come across and after repeated refusals on exact imitations in parachute they will still take the cdc comparaduns regardless of how close or far off the color is. And let's keep in mind these are not violent "skittering a caddis esq" instinctively triggered strikes..these are slow water gulps after scrutinization and refusals of other far more imitative offerings. I was out just this morning for an hour came across 4 risers taking 16 sulpher emergers got all 4 to take my tan/dark brown spiraled cdc comparadun..missed 2, stung one, and brought the biggest of the 4 (a 13 1/2in wild brown) to hand. I've seen this same fish a week ago in the same holding lie, taking the same sized sulpher emergers and he would not touch a single parachute I threw at him. Today I happened to see him rising again, threw some duck-butt at him this time around and on the 3rd pass he wacked my CDC Comparadun. Presently because of my consistent success with these flies aside from my leftover Parachutes and random CDC my box looks like as follows:
CDC Adams Comparadun 12-26 (for darker colored mayflies)
CDC Light Cahill Comparadun 12-20 (for lighter colored mayflies)
X-Caddis Tan 14-20
Griffith's Gnat 18-26
Parachute Black Ant 18
Royal Stimulator 16
Little Brown Trout Streamer 10
That being said I also use the X-Caddis as opposed to the elk hair for the same reason as I use the CDC comparadun now over the parachute because it too rides lower in the water column and better imitates a cripple/emerging caddis than the traditional elk hair. I've had the same situation occur with caddis as with mayflys where they'll take a 16 x-caddis in tan and ignore a 16 elk hair in olive with 16 olive caddis hatching..why I'd say this is the case is because the life cycle stage that the x-caddis is imitating is significantly "more vulnerable" than the life cycle stage in which the higher riding elk hair caddis is imitating even if the color is wrong. From a trout standpoint it has a far higher percentage of successfully rising to and eating a crippled/emerging caddis and in turn, due to this same vulnerability, will also expend less energy in the process of doing so than it would on a higher riding, already emerged, not as "vulnerable" elk hair caddis imitation that (from a trout standpoint) could "take off" at any second. It's the same as when mayfly duns and emergers or duns and spinners are both on the water at the same time, yet the trout will just typically just key in on the emergers/spinner stage as opposed to the duns reason for which i'd say is the former is far more vulnerable (and hence has a greater cost-benefit ratio in attempting to eat) than the latter. Can color be off-putting (ie; pink to match white or white to match black)...yea in some cases i'm sure...but white to match light colored mayflys and grey to match darker colored mayflys is basically a non-factor...same as bright green or red floss can certainly act as a trigger to fish, but what's to say the vulnerability of a tan x-caddis in that same situation wouldn't have worked just as well as the switch to a bright green EHC as far as triggering those same fish into striking? i've got only this week left to fish and then i'm done for the summer as i've got to repair my ACL tear stemming from an old hockey injury so I can pass my firefighter physical...but if anyone wishes to try or has tried what I do out on your own home rivers i'm sure many people other than myself would find your results something of great benefit...unless of course they sell flies for a living.
As a classic wet fly fisherman I find that color and presentation is what matters. My example is as follows. I was fishing with a size 8 professor wet fly and was having a hit and that was a bout it. So I tyed on the Blue Professor and started catching Brown Trout right away. Now my approach and presentation was not differrent but the color of the fly was. Now I am not say any ones findings are right or wrong, but when you fish classic wing wet flies they are colorful to drabb and catch fish at certain times and condtions meaning stream, temps, and sun light or lack of sn light. Now far as stream conditions I use an intermediate sinking line for streams that have faster movement and medium to higher water leves and a lot of deep pockets and a DTF line when the stream is shallow. I never really thought about this before and never paid attention to this either. Intersting post and maybe I need to think on this one a little more.
Went to an entirely wild brown trout outlet tonight fished with the CDC tan/rust spiral comparadun right at the beginning of the sulpher hatch and hooked into a big brown who snapped me off almost immediately...threw on a CDC Mosquito Comparadun pattern stuck another large wild brown but shook itself free after a few seconds..then brought two to hand on 4 casts total....switched at that point to the deerhair sulfer comparadun I bought today brought another 2 to hand with that but was taking 3 or 4 drifts per fish to get them to take...largest of the ones I brought to hand was 11in although the first two fish I got into were both much larger in comparison and all three of the largest fish I got into were all on the CDC. The CDC lands much lighter on the water than the deerhair which is why I'd say they were picking it off much more readily than the deerhair sulpher comparadun..none the less the CDC comparadun in tan/rust spiral and black/white spiral pattern fished easily as well if not better than the exact imitation sulpher comparadun. I also fished specifically in slow moving water underneath a bridge right by the primary access point where I knew there'd be not only some better sized fish but also where it'd likely have recieved the most pressure and again color was still insignificant for me. I don't fish sub-surface other than banging around an occassional streamer or two so maybe it matters more in that regard, but throwing dries it's just been size, shape, presentation and stage of emergence that really makes a difference..when all these intangibles are in line wild, big, small, spooky, fussy etc..the color has been insignificant
WBDluver
Official NEFF pot stirrer
Well, I was thinking about this and if color did not matter then why are there times when your fly floats on by and a trout takes a natural right next to it. Come on up to the Beaverkill or Delaware and lets see if all you have to do is match everything but color.
There are lots of reasons why a trout won't take an offering...far and away the number one reason is drag (presentation)..thickness of the body makes a difference (shape)...length of the leader (presentation), what angle you're casting to a fish (presentation), how hard the line and/or fly is hitting the water (presentation), how far your leading the trout by (presentation), what specific type of fly they're taking (size and shape), whether they're keying in on specifically duns, emergers, spinners, cripples (stage of emergence) etc...even in the case of the naturals trout will still outright refuse a natural mayfly that twitches or moves at the incorrect moment or manner no different than they do with a counterfeit. Also If you're throwing a dun when they're specifically keying in on emergers or spinners then you can even superglue a live mayfly dun to your tippet and it'll still be ignored...furthermore the actual shades of the color of mayfly vary within a hatch from fly to fly..some are a little lighter and some are a little darker so the fish would literally starve to death if they keyed in on one specific shade of one specific color as some people often suggest...that's why grey for dark mayflys and white/tan for light mayflys are still very productive assuming the intangibles relative to size, shape, presentation, and stage of emergence are all correct. Lastly, from the fish's standpoint let's keep in mind they "want to eat" and while at that eat as much as possible while expending as little energy as possible so they will gain weight and in turn be able to grow, successfully reproduce, and survive...they don't "not want to eat" but only are doing so because someone pointed a proverbial gun to their head...especially when casting dry to risers which were already actively in the feeding process instead of just sitting dormant behind some rock in a deep pool.
NJpatbee
Can be found on NJ/NY/PA waters!
I don't doubt that someone can have good success matching the proper fly proportion and either a darker or lighter coloration. But I have just had too many first hand experiences where switching only the color of the fly has made all the difference in the world. Is color important all the time everytime? No, but enough times to get me being as careful as possible.
WBDluver
Official NEFF pot stirrer
I have to agree with NJPat. Possibly in streams were food in not as abundantant they will be less selective. When they have an abundance of insects to choose from then I think they key in on a certain hatch. Also if this were true other flyfisherman that have studied trout and insects that they feed on would have made the same observations on the streams that they fished, I think of books like a "Modern Dry Fly COde" Matching the Hatch" etc.
Yea absolutely if that were the case or I was fishing some little spring creek but food is not scarce on the rivers I fish, I am "matching the hatch" other than color, and they are being very selective..they are taking 16 sulphers and will not touch an 18 sulpher nor a 14 sulpher nor a 16 tan caddis and rarely even a 16 parachute sulpher...but will, after scrutinization when coupled with a good presentation, still take a 16 cdc light cahill comparadun or rust/tan colored cdc comparadun. In terms of the books stuff in several prominent books you'll also see things written like trout
"saw" 6x but "couldn't see" 7x and other popular yet ridiculous notions in this regard and that's apparently why something works or didn't work...trout can see 6x just as well as 7x it's not the tippet diameter from a visual standpoint which matters it's just that 7x is thinner than 6x and thus makes it easier for the angler and/or current to not impart drag on the fly during the presentation...underlying point being just because something is or is not written in a book and/or is widely believed to be the case does not neccassarily mean that the same assertion also reflects reality. Furthermore I don't think many people go out and fish the way i've been doing it as far as finding exactly what they're taking and then after catching fish on exact patterns seeing how far away you can deviate from that pattern and still be productive. That's why I made this thread to begin with to see if anyone has done this as well/plans on trying it out for themselves in a similar situation and seeing how their results correspond with mine instead just accepting something to be "true" when reality commonly speaks otherwise. I'm not saying color is entirely irrelevant...I'm saying it can A.) work positively as a "trigger"..same way as skittering a caddis as opposed to dead-drifiting can work as a trigger..B.) can be off-putting if it's something too gaudy, unnatural, or outlandish like bright pink...and most importantly C.) can simultaniously be neither a trigger nor off-putting and in turn when size, shape, presentation, and stage of emergence are correct will still be productive. Also lets keep in mind that if they're taking BWO emergers and you're fishing an adams parachute with no success, then switch to a BWO parachute and draw strikes...that does not mean that switching to an adams comparadun would not have been equally, if not even more successful in drawing strikes during that same BWO hatch.
"saw" 6x but "couldn't see" 7x and other popular yet ridiculous notions in this regard and that's apparently why something works or didn't work...trout can see 6x just as well as 7x it's not the tippet diameter from a visual standpoint which matters it's just that 7x is thinner than 6x and thus makes it easier for the angler and/or current to not impart drag on the fly during the presentation...underlying point being just because something is or is not written in a book and/or is widely believed to be the case does not neccassarily mean that the same assertion also reflects reality. Furthermore I don't think many people go out and fish the way i've been doing it as far as finding exactly what they're taking and then after catching fish on exact patterns seeing how far away you can deviate from that pattern and still be productive. That's why I made this thread to begin with to see if anyone has done this as well/plans on trying it out for themselves in a similar situation and seeing how their results correspond with mine instead just accepting something to be "true" when reality commonly speaks otherwise. I'm not saying color is entirely irrelevant...I'm saying it can A.) work positively as a "trigger"..same way as skittering a caddis as opposed to dead-drifiting can work as a trigger..B.) can be off-putting if it's something too gaudy, unnatural, or outlandish like bright pink...and most importantly C.) can simultaniously be neither a trigger nor off-putting and in turn when size, shape, presentation, and stage of emergence are correct will still be productive. Also lets keep in mind that if they're taking BWO emergers and you're fishing an adams parachute with no success, then switch to a BWO parachute and draw strikes...that does not mean that switching to an adams comparadun would not have been equally, if not even more successful in drawing strikes during that same BWO hatch.
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Alright just got back from the Wild trout river i've been fishing the last 3 days...took my camera with me tonight managed to pick off 4 so I took some pictures...1st is one I caught in the pool behind the bridge while sitting down in foot and half rapids...second I caught in a long flat pool about 1500 feet upstream which had alot of overhead tree cover so the flash didn't wash out the coloring of the trout like it did with the other two I took near the bridge which had no overhead cover...3rd pic is a 12 1/2in brown I took from out in front of that log pile right above the bridge..4th pic is a mangled cdc rust/tan spiral comparadun post-extraction..5th is a shot of the bridge and log pile..6th is a shot up close of where the 12 1/2in wild brown was holding...7th is taken in the darkness underneath the bridge where I was standing when I hooked him and all the way up front you can see the big rock I landed it on where I took the picture...and 8th is a shot of the rear side of the bridge pool in the water I was sitting in where I caught the first one...lastly here is a write up of the actual river from the book "Fly Fishing Guide to New York" scroll to the "WB reservior to Croton Falls Reservior" if you wish to read about it...i'll be taking this last part out in a couple days as a courtesy to anyone else that fishes here regularly but to further convey that these are not merely some opportunistic small stream trout that'll hit anything Flyfisher's Guide to New York - Google Books
..take it easy -MT
..take it easy -MT
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draku007
New member
I got inspired by your post while reading it today and decided to hit a wild stream and see it for myself if a color does matter.
I started with #12 rusty emergers and got couple false strikes. Tide a Royal Wuff #14 and got 2 browns and one brookie (all in the same pool). Switched to #16 Elk Hair Caddis and got another 2 (one was a nice size brown) and couple false strikes. Tide couple sparkle duns in different color and sizes and got couple more + a sunfish as a bonus.
My conclusions... it all depends where you fish. I'm sure most of the fish I caught today has never seen a man made fly before so they were taking whatever the water brings their way. Good drift was the minimum required. The fly size and color didn't matter at all. As someone said it already here - go to the Catskills on some heavily pressured water and give it a try. You'll be surprised.
I started with #12 rusty emergers and got couple false strikes. Tide a Royal Wuff #14 and got 2 browns and one brookie (all in the same pool). Switched to #16 Elk Hair Caddis and got another 2 (one was a nice size brown) and couple false strikes. Tide couple sparkle duns in different color and sizes and got couple more + a sunfish as a bonus.
My conclusions... it all depends where you fish. I'm sure most of the fish I caught today has never seen a man made fly before so they were taking whatever the water brings their way. Good drift was the minimum required. The fly size and color didn't matter at all. As someone said it already here - go to the Catskills on some heavily pressured water and give it a try. You'll be surprised.
Well done bro and i'm glad you were inspired to try it out for yourself and had some nice results...what to try next is to go to a river by you that's heavily pressured next time there's a nice mayfly hatch and throw some appropriate sized CDC Comparadun's in whatever color you wish...i've done this numerous times dude and you'll be surprised how many risers you can pick off as long as the size, shape, stage of emergence and a smooth presentation are in place
Absolutely man..make sure though you also pay attention to "stage of emergence" as well as that's really important..Dude just throw a few CDC Comparaduns in your box and next mayfly hatch regardless of if they're taking spinners, emergers, duns, cripples etc.. these things, while not being the best to look at or the most durable, will still draw you a good number of strikes
