Ken Lockwood Gorge road update

[sloppy-ollies]

Destroying the watershed I just don't agree. Sorry. Especially when everything is fully grown in, I just don't see it. The course itself really doesn't use more pesticides than the average homeowner does. I've seen more garbage in the SBR in Long Valley then any runoff silt, and that's got nothing to do with the golf course. I'm talking tires, plastic outdoor patio furniture, etc. The DEP and town inspectors are there for a reason, and if you think they let things like runoff and silt slip under the radar, you're nuts. They don't tolerate it, and we don't take any chances with them.

 

[Drossi]

Destroying the watershed I just don't agree. Sorry. Especially when everything is fully grown in, I just don't see it. The course itself really doesn't use more pesticides than the average homeowner does. I've seen more garbage in the SBR in Long Valley then any runoff silt, and that's got nothing to do with the golf course. I'm talking tires, plastic outdoor patio furniture, etc. The DEP and town inspectors are there for a reason, and if you think they let things like runoff and silt slip under the radar, you're nuts. They don't tolerate it, and we don't take any chances with them.

Oh yeah, clear cutting natural forest and turning it into a glorified lawn does wonders for the watershed. :down: Sure it may not use more pesticides then residences but subdivisions suck for a watershed also. There is no way any sort of development be it houses or golf course (homo hockey arenas) are anything but bad for a watershed. Not only do they increase sediment and runoff but they also sap ground water through increased usage. You gotta water the lawn to keep them an unnatural green.

The DEP and town inspectors are there for a reason....to line their cofers.

 

[sloppy-ollies]

Oh yeah, clear cutting natural forest and turning it into a glorified lawn does wonders for the watershed. :down: Sure it may not use more pesticides then residences but subdivisions suck for a watershed also. There is no way any sort of development be it houses or golf course (homo hockey arenas) are anything but bad for a watershed. Not only do they increase sediment and runoff but they also sap ground water through increased usage. You gotta water the lawn to keep them an unnatural green.

The DEP and town inspectors are there for a reason....to line their cofers.

Haha, you obviously know very little about construction and engineering. Just tell me how it increases sediment and runoff and sap ground water? Do you even know where the water for irrigating a golf course comes from?

 

[Stonefly]

Haha, you obviously know very little about construction and engineering. Just tell me how it increases sediment and runoff and sap ground water? Do you even know where the water for irrigating a golf course comes from?

You can post all you want defending a golf course on one of this states most important if not the most important trout streams, but no one will agree with you or care about you, so get over yourself. I spoke to NJ Audubon, they have NO CONTECTION to the group that gave you your certifate, nor does the national audubon society... Self promotion by a group made up by the golfing industry. Want our respect, then don't use ANY commercial pesticides, go to natural none polluting types.

And to say a golf course doesn't use anymore then a homeowner is down right bull shit

 

[AKSkim]

Haha, you obviously know very little about construction and engineering.

Ollie-God there you have it.

 

[Agust]

Haha, you obviously know very little about construction and engineering. Just tell me how it increases sediment and runoff and sap ground water? Do you even know where the water for irrigating a golf course comes from?

Unless you are buying the water from a tanker company, it comes from on site wells. Unless your golf course has an exemption to the laws of gravity, your runoff flows downhill which means it ends up in the river eventually.

I may not work in construction, but I have worked on a dairy farm and learned to recognize the smell of bullshit a long time ago.

When calculating surface water runoff, lawns and golf courses are ranked just a hairs breadth above parking lots and roads. Golf courses are probably less harmful than parking lots and strip malls, but they are a damn sight worse than woods or even fields.

Yes there are better and worse ways to operate a golf course, and yes technology (driven by environmental restrictions) has improved them greatly. But if you think they are without impact on the environment and the rivers we love, you are just plain wrong.

 

[Drossi]

Haha, you obviously know very little about construction and engineering. Just tell me how it increases sedimentSee next point. Increased runoff causes increased soil erosion which causes increase river sedimentation and runoff Land that is deforested, even if it is turned into a glorified lawn such as a golf course will not absorb rainfall as well as a forest better than impervious surfaces yes. You will also get pollution with the run off in the form of fertilizer or goose shit (since they LOVE golf courses)and sap ground water? When the sprinklers come on to water the course, does the water come from a well? Do you even know where the water for irrigating a golf course comes from?Ususally from a dedicated well system because a golf course isn't going to pay the prevailing water rates to tap into a municpal water system.

Evidently I'm OBVIOUSLY not as smart as you.

 

[sloppy-ollies]

I can argue with you nitwits till my face turns blue. We'll see in ten years if the golf course has ruined the SBR, which it won't, and you knee jerk idiots can eat crow.

 

[Ronbo]

Hey,
Anybody got a real update on the KLG road work:burp:

 

[Eagle Claw]

The upper section gets muddy fast after a downpour due to construction, check conditions first unless you like fishing streamers in Yoo Hoo

 

[Rusty Spinner]

Hey,
Anybody got a real update on the KLG road work:burp:

Just that the state's contractor is working on drainage along the road. They will be installing 3 gates as per the plan so the state can open or close any or all stretches of the road as weather permits. Unfortunately due to the Americans with Disabilities Act, with the # of parking spaces being added, the state is forced to add 2 handicapped access platforms. I say unfortunately because most or all of us who have reviewed the plans for the "decks" believe they will be destroyed in the first big flood. We all want to see handicapped anglers have access to fishing, but the structures they chose will not last, IMO.

Looks like the pressure the angling community put on the division convinced them to remove 2 of the 3 stretches of pavement. There are only plans to add 148' (I think was the #) to the uppermost stretch of road where no other material would work to hold the roadbed in place. I think the road should be closed permanently, but time will tell.

 

[Drossi]

I can argue with you nitwits till my face turns blue.

You need to stop looking in the mirror immediately....we wouldn't want you to suffocate. :hysterica

 

[japple]

fished the gorge this morning.....work being done at the trestle parking lot and the lower lot. some trees have been removed and digging in anticipation of drainage pipe installation. (not sure where the drainage can go other than ultimately the river...) In order to not incite the masses...I'll hold off on any construction comments until it's all said and done as the work is happening like it or not (hoping it makes a positive impact in the end). having said that...the water temp dropped from 70 sunday afternoon to 63 this morning and the fishing was great at 85cfs and off-color.....golden stone worked in near every hole it went....mostly browns

after all...it is about the fishing

 

[Rusty Spinner]

fished the gorge this morning.....work being done at the trestle parking lot and the lower lot. some trees have been removed and digging in anticipation of drainage pipe installation. (not sure where the drainage can go other than ultimately the river...) In order to not incite the masses...I'll hold off on any construction comments until it's all said and done as the work is happening like it or not (hoping it makes a positive impact in the end).

Correct, this is not effluent or parking lot runoff, it's water coming off the hillside on the road side that has for years been washing small amounts of sediment into the river every time it rains and has been helping to cause some of the potholes in the road. The state is trying to provide proper drainage for the road which is a good thing provided it is done correctly. Time will tell...glad to hear the fishing was good!

 

[Stonefly]

I can argue with you nitwits till my face turns blue. We'll see in ten years if the golf course has ruined the SBR, which it won't, and you knee jerk idiots can eat crow.

And know we see the true natural of the man, we are all nitwits and idiots...:finger:

 

[njflyline]

hello i fish ken lockwood gorge river last weekend catch 6 brouwn trout 4 rainbow trout
thank you

 

[mbwmn]

I'm anxious to see what last nite's rain did...looks like .2ft short of flood stage and 2000cfs (vs 80-85cfs).
i'll drive by on the way from work and snap a few pics.

could be much worse. we could be complaining about a drought and 20cfs w/ dead fish...(good thing we're nowhere near Lk Hopatcong)

spruce run was running higher than i've seen it since there was snow on the ground, and it looked like cardboard this am.

 

[jholland]

I was down in the Gorge this morning and the SBR crested around 2800 cfs. It was a classic gully washer, the river was running around 95 cfs at 11:30 last night then the storm came in around 3am and by 7am it was up to 2800.
Lots of water and debris running down the street. It's dropping fast now around 1370 cfs but there was some erosion of the work areas in the Gorge and when the water drops, we'll see more of what happened. The golf course up in Bartley above the Claremont had some exposed piles of dirt not far from the river and I'm sure some of that is in the river now too.-JH

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I was down in the Gorge this morning and the SBR crested around 2800 cfs. It was a classic gully washer, the river was running around 95 cfs at 11:30 last night then the storm came in around 3am and by 7am it was up to 2800.
Lots of water and debris running down the street. It's dropping fast now around 1370 cfs but there was some erosion of the work areas in the Gorge and when the water drops, we'll see more of what happened. The golf course up in Bartley above the Claremont had some exposed piles of dirt not far from the river and I'm sure some of that is in the river now too.-JH

Now I'm sure that the golf course could not have caused any sediment load to the river, we have "Slop-Ollies" word on this

Thanks for the report, Jim! Glad I work in the Musky and not SBR watershed. The Musky is not nearly as flashy a river system. That surge causes a lot of problems for a watershed. Cutting down hundreds of acres of forest and adding Bermuda grass (i.e.: green concrete) sure doesn't help matters, does it?

 

[mbwmn]

i just came over the Pt. Mtn bridge. i don't believe the Musky will be fishable for a few days. bet the kayakers were having a blast!

i also crossed the SBR @ Hoffmans. i suspect it will be many days before the gorge can be fished. the locals along the river have some cleanup to do. looks like the river was up into the road in a few spots. i strongly urge we give the locals a break this weekend and stay away, since it can't be fished. (hey pal, can you move that backhoe so i can park here?) this would be a good time to swing by shannon's and fill in the empty spots in the fly box ('lo jim!).

SBR almost looks too high and fast for kayaks. i'm very experienced w/ canoes (having crushed a few), and wouldn't even think about taking an open boat near hoffmans or the gorge.

spruce run was above flood level, and was up near the 2000cfs the gorge was at! there's also a lot of debris and damage on the backroads around hampton tnsp. lebanon tnsp was not nearly as bad. drive w/ caution in these areas next few days.

neighbor just mentioned something about a pontoon boat and chicken livers...what weight rod is required for chicken livers?

 

[Drossi]

Now I'm sure that the golf course could not have caused any sediment load to the river, we have "Slop-Ollies" word on this

Thanks for the report, Jim! Glad I work in the Musky and not SBR watershed. The Musky is not nearly as flashy a river system. That surge causes a lot of problems for a watershed. Cutting down hundreds of acres of forest and adding Bermuda grass (i.e.: green concrete) sure doesn't help matters, does it?

Now don't pick on Sloppy-2nds that way. Green concrete come on...he's waaaaaaaaaay smarter than us, he has knowledge of engineering and construction (all bow and hail). We're just nitwits.

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I'm just back from a Musky and KLG tour. The Musky will drop and fish in a day or two, but the Gorge was totally blown out. I walked it with Gadfly and we laughed as we passed a guy heading in to fish. I said, "please be careful" as we passed basically because I didn't want to have to be the one hauling his carcass out of the river next week. The upper SBR is already clearing up nicely, so don't be surprised if the Gorge is fishable by tomorrow or Saturday.

We don't need anymore t-storms that's for sure! But it looks like Mother Nature may have other ideas...

 

[atun_fish_on]

How does the Flat brook look? Planning on heading up their tommorow.

 

[Simms]

a,

Anything near 100cfs is PRIME for flatbrook, HELL, i was fishing it 2 weeks ago at over 300cfs and LOVING it..FISH everywhere....If its high fish the banks and back eddies...FOr some reason in the yoohoo they wanted small flies...It was a bit strange...However tie on until you hit 'em..they are in there

 

[atun_fish_on]

The Flatbrook was bad today water was okay but trout were picky. I think they were going for midges but left at 10 so o well. I need to find some good spots on that river I had one good one in Flatbrookville. But I am just clueless on the rest of the river. Bad day.

 

[AKSkim]

I walked it with Gadfly and we laughed as we passed a guy heading in to fish. I said, "please be careful" as we passed basically because I didn't want to have to be the one hauling his carcass out of the river next week. ...

He didn't happen to ask you for directions by chance did he?

 

[japple]

The 3000cfs did some of it's own maintenance by washing out more of the road and moving several very large trees hanging over the river off to the side....actually opened up a very nice run in one area.....now that it has settled the water was a cool 62 on sunday a.m. and the off-color made for some excellent fishing on large stoneflies and isonychia.....can't ask for a better water year with these conditions into july....many happy trout !

 

[Terry]

I'm planning on dropping a few flies into the Gorge tomorrow morning. Does anyone know if the gorge is still open from the bottom up to the trestle? Also - any suggestions on which type of fly is currently on would be helpful (I nymph fish).

Thanks -

Terry

 

[Rusty Spinner]

I'm planning on dropping a few flies into the Gorge tomorrow morning. Does anyone know if the gorge is still open from the bottom up to the trestle? Also - any suggestions on which type of fly is currently on would be helpful (I nymph fish).

Thanks -

Terry

The Gorge is open, but if you mean to cars I don't know. It was from the bottom up to the trestle late last week when I toured the work being done but I don't know as of today.

For nymphs, you can't go wrong with Iso nymphs size 10 and 12, caddis in sizes 14-18, RS2s in size 18 or 20 or any Pheasant Tails or Hare's Ears in sizes 10 -20. Fish in the Gorge aren't picky in my estimation, just put the fly down in the pocket water where they lie in wait. Good luck!

 

[Terry]

Thanks - I'll let you know how I do tomorrow!!!