NY State Role in Reservoir Releases

[brachycentrus]

A little outdated but gives an overview.
New York's Role in the Delaware River Basin Commission (DRBC) - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation

The current FFMP which expires on May 31.
http://water.usgs.gov/osw/odrm/documents/FFMP_2013_Agreement.pdf

Hopefully, NYDEP will recognize the Croton System coming back online and add that water to the overall calculation.

Right now, the reservoirs are low for this time of year with not much of a snowpack, so we need spring rains, which never materialized the last 2 years. All this and they were dumping 2000 cfs out of Cannonsville all winter and has created an artificial drought.

They have the water to satisfy all users including the downbasin states, Croton is coming back on line which will add water to the system, new zoning laws have helped with flooding concerns downstream, BASED ON A 500 YEAR FLOOD, so I personally dont see the need for 20% voids. We had numerous dangerous high temp situations last season and NYDEP remained steadfast in refusing to release more water to help the situation except maybe once or twice and as usual, THEY ENDED THE WATER YEAR WITH A SURPLUS OF UNUSED WATER ! They need to throw their OST tool into the East River !!

 

[Future Fanatic]

new zoning laws have helped with flooding concerns downstream,

Can you give an example of this?
Thanks.

 

[brachycentrus]

Can you give an example of this?
Thanks.

Go over to East Branch and ask the residents how they feel ?
Cant sell their houses, have to rebuild the dyke which no longer meets FEMA standards. Dont know about down on the MS but you dont really care, you just want to divert and start shit because you are just a damn stinky ass llama farmer who never contributes shit to this board except to start trouble.

 

[flyI4]

here comes the fine print followed by a bunch of rhetorical questions and implied jokes that no one thinks are funny.

 

[Future Fanatic]

Go over to East Branch and ask the residents how they feel ?
Cant sell their houses, have to rebuild the dyke which no longer meets FEMA standards. Dont know about down on the MS but you dont really care, you just want to divert and start shit because you are just a damn stinky ass llama farmer who never contributes shit to this board except to start trouble.

Asking a question is "starting trouble"?
I just want to "divert"?

Those questions aren't rhetorical.... wait maybe they are...
Now that I've satisfied FlyI4.... wait... NOW I'm done...

All I asked was for you, brachy, to explain what you meant by the "new zoning laws" you were referencing. And you resort to insults?

I'll try to keep it civil...
Who can't sell their houses in East Branch(and why)?
What dike has to be rebuilt? and by who?

 

[brachycentrus]

Asking a question is "starting trouble"?
I just want to "divert"?

Those questions aren't rhetorical.... wait maybe they are...
Now that I've satisfied FlyI4.... wait... NOW I'm done...

All I asked was for you, brachy, to explain what you meant by the "new zoning laws" you were referencing. And you resort to insults?

I'll try to keep it civil...
Who can't sell their houses in East Branch(and why)?
What dike has to be rebuilt? and by who?

Guess you arent as dialed in as you like to portary yourself. Go over to the EB Firehouse and you will get all your answers. Might be a stretch for you as you dont like to go anywhere outside of Norboard.
Seriously John, what is it with you. If it's not gas rights, it's some other arcane thing that you like to start shit about. Why havent you ever contributed anything of substance to this board ? I use to post here years ago and stopped because of shit posted like the stuff you do. Maybe I dont have the patience that you do, what do you feed those LLamas twice a day and have nothing else to do except start stuff.
As to your original question, FEMA ruled post flood that the existing dyke is substandard. Homeowners insurance cannot be bought, maybe very expensive flood insurance, but probably above the means of the average EB homeowners income level. Who would but a home overthere if you couldnt offer protection.
Get out of Norboard and look around. All new homes being built are on far setbacks or piers. Some diehards are jacking their houses up, this is down on the MS. Codes on new builds have been changed to accomodate a once in 500 yr event.

 

[tompg]

brachycentrus for President, King, Emperor, and whatever else he wants!

 

[Future Fanatic]

As to your original question, FEMA ruled post flood that the existing dyke is substandard. Homeowners insurance cannot be bought, maybe very expensive flood insurance, but probably above the means of the average EB homeowners income level. Who would but a home overthere if you couldnt offer protection.
Get out of Norboard and look around. All new homes being built are on far setbacks or piers. Some diehards are jacking their houses up, this is down on the MS. Codes on new builds have been changed to accomodate a once in 500 yr event.

Look at how easy that was...

But you HAD to add even MORE insults... Who ACTS like that?

 

[brachycentrus]

Maybe has something to do with the fact that I dont like you !

Go and look at your past threads. 5 pages related to where certain guides pay their taxes. As far as I'm concerned and my Tax Accontant, it's none of your business where or how my taxes are paid.

 

[TR]

Right now, the reservoirs are low for this time of year with not much of a snowpack, so we need spring rains, which never materialized the last 2 years. All this and they were dumping 2000 cfs out of Cannonsville all winter and has created an artificial drought.

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Wednesday afternoon readings for March 26 2014.

Water temps and levels...



NYC Reservoir storage...



I remember the old days when Cannonsville use to spill in April with sawbellies. Not anymore.

Now they piss the water away from the bottom in the winter when we need those coldwater releases in the summer (duh).

I supposed to create a 90% void eventhough there's not much snowpack north of the reservoir right now. It's all melted.

Maybe they're expecting a hurricane soon.

Wind is sure howlin' today.

 

[brachycentrus]

------

Wednesday afternoon readings for March 26 2014.

Water temps and levels...

View attachment 10365

NYC Reservoir storage...

View attachment 10366

I remember the old days when Cannonsville use to spill in April with sawbellies. Not anymore.

Now they piss the water away from the bottom in the winter when we need those coldwater releases in the summer (duh).

I supposed to create a 90% void eventhough there's not much snowpack north of the reservoir right now. It's all melted.

Maybe they're expecting a hurricane soon.

Wind is sure howlin' today.

Absolutely Tony, missing that big slug of protein right after spawning and the browns would be puking alewives and couldnt possibly find room for another but they were vicious and right on the bank. Havent seen that in 4 or 5 years since the flood voids were required.

 

[Future Fanatic]

Maybe has something to do with the fact that I dont like you !

Go and look at your past threads. 5 pages related to where certain guides pay their taxes. As far as I'm concerned and my Tax Accontant, it's none of your business where or how my taxes are paid.

I'm not sure I made YOUR TAXES my business.
But I'm sure that a guy like you would certainly pay taxes on any income you made in NY TO NY. I mean it's the good people of this state that make your job on the D possible, right?

But getting back to these voids...
Wasn't it just a short time ago that some certain "trout habitat conservation group" was FOR voids? Well, it seems they were for voids during certain times of the year(hurricane season). Wasn't the purpose to protect residents downstream? Now of course, having voids during hurricane season made the likelihood of cold water released during fishing season more likely... Can't count on Mother nature to provide enough water for that though... SO...

Now I understand you personally don't like voids, but does that "trout habitat conservation group" still like voids?

And remember back when guys used to complain about anchor ice during the winter?
I haven't heard THAT term in years... It's always something...

Where's Big_Spinner when you need him... Hasn't he been against voids for years?

 

[brachycentrus]

I'm not sure I made YOUR TAXES my business.
But I'm sure that a guy like you would certainly pay taxes on any income you made in NY TO NY. I mean it's the good people of this state that make your job on the D possible, right?

But getting back to these voids...
Wasn't it just a short time ago that some certain "trout habitat conservation group" was FOR voids? Well, it seems they were for voids during certain times of the year(hurricane season). Wasn't the purpose to protect residents downstream? Now of course, having voids during hurricane season made the likelihood of cold water released during fishing season more likely... Can't count on Mother nature to provide enough water for that though... SO...

Now I understand you personally don't like voids, but does that "trout habitat conservation group" still like voids?

And remember back when guys used to complain about anchor ice during the winter?
I haven't heard THAT term in years... It's always something...

Where's Big_Spinner when you need him... Hasn't he been against voids for years?

I'm not sure I made YOUR TAXES my business.
But I'm sure that a guy like you would certainly pay taxes on any income you made in NY TO NY. I mean it's the good people of this state that make your job on the D possible, right?

But getting back to these voids...
Wasn't it just a short time ago that some certain "trout habitat conservation group" was FOR voids? Well, it seems they were for voids during certain times of the year(hurricane season). Wasn't the purpose to protect residents downstream? Now of course, having voids during hurricane season made the likelihood of cold water released during fishing season more likely... Can't count on Mother nature to provide enough water for that though... SO...

Now I understand you personally don't like voids, but does that "trout habitat conservation group" still like voids?

And remember back when guys used to complain about anchor ice during the winter?
I haven't heard THAT term in years... It's always something...

Where's Big_Spinner when you need him... Hasn't he been against voids for years?

John,
My concern with voids are that maybe the percentage needs to be adjusted. A 20% void may not be needed anymore as downbasin communities have taken steps to protect against a 500 yr. event. The cry for voids was due to the 05 and 06 floods that devasted some properties downstream. Now you can question the wisdom of building in a flood plain, but that wasnt what I was alluding to.

The flood groups that formed spoke with a powerful voice and political allies and any agreement had to adress their concerns. My question was whether the void amount is still needed.
As far as anchor ice goes, I'm all for it. Strictly anecdotal, but we didnt have the algae problems that we do now, at least until the reservoir hit the 30% or so level. Didymo wasnt present. Ponder this, why is the EB loaded with Didymo and yet not the Beaverkill or Willo.

The WB is being silted in to the point we are seeing Green Drakes and White Flies up in Stilesville, which never happened until the river started to silt up. There are areas that a wading angler cannot even cross anymore due to the silt. I understand that a river system changes over time due to natural conditions, but what has been happening up there are being exasperated by controllable situations, whether it is too much fertilizer being applied by some of the farms in the drainage or NYDEP mismanagement, certain issues could be addressed.

The voids have stopped the annual flush of alewives over the dam at ice out just when the post spawn bows could use that slug of protein most. Look at current reservoir levels today, I just did. We are in trouble if we dont get the spring rains, which havent materialized over the last few years, so there are a lot of factors in the mix, some of which are being adressed as we speak with current FFMP negotiations for the coming year. One of which I feel would be a disaster is NY is looking for a 5 year agreement rather than the existing 1 yr.
On a positive note, Sands Creek flood plain restoration is scheduled to start this year with more to come.

 

[TR]

Where's Big_Spinner when you need him...

----------

Yeah.

Where is Big Spinner?

He was lurking here awhile ago.

Oh, well.

Jim thinks it's spilling this year.

Have faith. In July.

BTW. It's lower today...

 

[JOE.T]

Looks like some things never change.

I have been torn over Voids from day 1

The voids have indeed created certain issues, as Brachy describes i.e. Less Alewives in the WB, Algae issues from early spring, and I absolutely think that the only reason Didymo showed up is due to Winter releases.Prior to winter releases Didymo wasn't even a topic of discussion related to the Upper D System.

Freezing Didymo is one of the only ways to kill it..Prior to the winter releases the upper D did in fact freeze.

That is why the Beaverkill and Wilo does not have didymo and never will.

It is a double edged sword though,not having anchor ice is a good thing for a couple of reasons, and having winter releases does in fact create a tighter temp range which results in more consistent hatches.Its all about Thermal units aka degree days related to Aquatic insects.

We do in fact need more water into the reservoirs, without it the summer fishing on the tail-waters will be relegated to just the very upper stretches of the WB,EB, and Neversink.This will be due to low releases and low water which equals higher temps down range.

The problem with that is you'll have far to many fly-fisherman in the upper stretches which isn't good for the Fish, Bugs, and fishing itself.It's hard to argue Brachy's points since he is a professional guide, and has spent thousands of hours on the Upper D, and countless hours fight for the cause.(Water releases)

I'm just saying in my humble opinion unless you spend a great deal of time on the Upper D, you really wouldn't know or even understand the impacts of certain changes over the years,In other words there is nothing like practical experience.

Joe T

 

[TR]

Looks like some things never change.

I have been torn over Voids from day 1...

Joe T

-------

Joey Tut!

This is old home week!

Now, we really Big Spinner to come out of the closet and join the fray!

Dennis! Party favors!

Joey, an article today in The Times Herald Record about Manor near your old stomping grounds on Shandalee Road!

1,000 acres near the Willowemoc and Beaverkill in foreclosure.

Maybe Trout Nazi and The Good Beetle can open a spa, micro brewery and healing center.

Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com

 

[tompg]

strictly out of technical curiosity: Does anyone know the actual mechanics of setting release levels? Not the politics and decision making stuff but how they actually open and close the valves. Is it something like "hey Jimmy, the foreman says turn lever #2 a half turn clockwise at 3 PM." Or is it more sophisticated than that? Computer controlled from somewhere in a DEP bunker a mile underneath the World Trade Center? Is it like ICBMs where someone sits at the switch and constantly drills though very rigid procedures?

inquiring mind only wants to know

 

[JOE.T]

Wow 1000 acres sounds like a great hunting spot to me.

-------

Joey Tut!

This is old home week!

Now, we really Big Spinner to come out of the closet and join the fray!

Dennis! Party favors!

Joey, an article today in The Times Herald Record about Manor near your old stomping grounds on Shandalee Road!

1,000 acres near the Willowemoc and Beaverkill in foreclosure.

Maybe Trout Nazi and The Good Beetle can open a spa, micro brewery and healing center.

Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com

 

[Trout Nazi]

-------

1,000 acres near the Willowemoc and Beaverkill in foreclosure.

Maybe Trout Nazi and The Good Beetle can open a spa, micro brewery and healing center.

Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com

I do need a location to setup my guiding operation, and perhaps the Beetle can head my fly tying department. Either that, or you can let the Chinese buy it.

 

[TR]

I do need a location to setup my guiding operation, and perhaps the Beetle can head my fly tying department. Either that, or you can let the Chinese buy it.

-----

Your wish is the IDA's command.

They like the idea especially the name - The Golden Beetle.

Excellent branding.

See:

Sullivan County Democrat: Chinese 'City'

"Indeed, the plan is predicated on outside investment – Chinese, in particular – through a federal immigration program. Known as “EB-5,” the program encourages foreign investment on U.S. soil by promising visas (green cards) to immigrants who invest at least $500,000 in an American-based project ($1 million in urban and suburban areas)."

 

[dcabarle]

And let's not forget, Larry Miri!

-------

Joey Tut!

This is old home week!

Now, we really Big Spinner to come out of the closet and join the fray!

Dennis! Party favors!

Joey, an article today in The Times Herald Record about Manor near your old stomping grounds on Shandalee Road!

1,000 acres near the Willowemoc and Beaverkill in foreclosure.

Maybe Trout Nazi and The Good Beetle can open a spa, micro brewery and healing center.

Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com

 

[Future Fanatic]

And let's not forget, Larry Miri!

BJ Miller
Andre
NJFred

 

[mob201]

My guess is that spinnerus maximus is too busy actually trying to solve these issues to spend time educating us about them (although Brachy seems pretty well versed already). He also passed a couple of big milestones recently, professionally and personally, and might be taking a much deserved break.

In any event, if NYC fries the tailwaters this summer, I'm going to personally boycott my own faucet here in Brooklyn. No drinking water, no showers, no baths, no toilet flushing. If all the fly fishermen in the city do this we'll... smell bad and then die of thirst. Okay bad idea.

Better idea: I'll fill my van with NYC tap water and drive it up to Downsville to ceremonially dump it in covered bridge pool. Somebody call Matt Lauer.

 

[JOE.T]

-------

Joey Tut!

This is old home week!

Now, we really Big Spinner to come out of the closet and join the fray!

Dennis! Party favors!


Sullivan County judge orders sale of 1,000 acres in $21M foreclosure | recordonline.com

Larry is alive and kicking somewhere in NYC.

Bruce and NJ Fred- Hard-core Delaware Fly-Fisherman.

TR- A blast from the past, how's the Real Lower D looking? See you soon.

 

[brachycentrus]

OK, man enough to admit my humaness. I was wrong on the void percentage. It is no longer 20% but after rereading last years agreement the goal is to maintain a 10%.void between Sept 1 and March 15th. Conveniently right when the fish will shortly be on their redds.
However, if we do not fill those reservoirs, we are in a shitstorm this year. Right now, half the gauges on both rivers are frozen, if anyone was looking.

 

[JOE.T]

OK, man enough to admit my humaness. I was wrong on the void percentage. It is no longer 20% but after rereading last years agreement the goal is to maintain a 10%.void between Sept 1 and March 15th. Conveniently right when the fish will shortly be on their redds.
However, if we do not fill those reservoirs, we are in a shitstorm this year. Right now, half the gauges on both rivers are frozen, if anyone was looking.

I'm looking, I always look! Actually I'm preparing to fish very shortly, which might not be a bad idea for some people who post here.

In other words you might enjoy the real rivers that you can wade or float and catch trout with a Fly as oppose to posting here. I would suggest a size 18 Capnidae (that would be a Stone fly). Size 16/18 Baetis Vagans (that would be a BWO) Probably a tad bit early for those.

Yes indeed it will be a Shitstorm this summer if the reservoirs do not fill.That would mean fishing would really suck on the Tail-waters.

Good Luck.

 

[brachycentrus]

I'm looking, I always look! Actually I'm preparing to fish very shortly, which might not be a bad idea for some people who post here.

In other words you might enjoy the real rivers that you can wade or float and catch trout with a Fly as oppose to posting here. I would suggest a size 18 Capnidae (that would be a Stone fly). Size 16/18 Baetis Vagans (that would be a BWO) Probably a tad bit early for those.

Yes indeed it will be a Shitstorm this summer if the reservoirs do not fill.That would mean fishing would really suck on the Tail-waters.

Good Luck.

Is that your pattern on the right ?
Good to see you back here brother.

 

[JOE.T]

Is that your pattern on the right ?
Good to see you back here brother.

No that is late great Jimmy Charron's CDC pattern.

Your thinking of the cripple I tie with CDC including the stem for wings.

Either way they are both killer patterns when the Dorothea's (Sulphurs) are on the water, and actually for Pseudos' and all of the Olive species.


It's good to be back - meaning my home waters.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Yes indeed it will be a Shitstorm this summer if the reservoirs do not fill.That would mean fishing would really suck on the Tail-waters.

Good Luck.

Listening to you guys every spring is like listening to the dudes who used to be in Times Square (before it got lame) telling us the world was gonna end tomorrow. I wake up the next day, worlds still here.

 

[JOE.T]

Maybe you should fish more this summer and see for yourself, thats a novel idea huh?..Oh let me guess your allowed to only fish a weekend every other month.

You armchair quarterbacks are the reason why most of the very experienced Fly-fisherman have left this site years ago.

Go practice your reach-cast ,tie some flies, and go fish!