Split Shot and Nymphing

[Petergoodman]

We are all supposed to be moving from lead split shot, and the Dinsmore tin stuff never stays on the leader more than a couple casts. Tried putting them above a leader knot, pressing pretty hard with forceps - couple of casts and the shot is gone - rather than putting a few lead pellets on the stream bottom seems I am plastering the bottom with tin.

There must be some trick to this. If it was spring/summer I would just stick to dries, but not so easy to do this in November. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[PAflyguy]

I've had difficulties also with keeping the new non toxic split shots on my line too. I've had a lot of the same problems with dinsmore. at times i've felt that i should just save myself some time and throw all my overpriced split shot into the creek, skipping the extraneous step where i attempt to fasten it on my line. I've had better luck with other company's non toxic shot staying on my line (water gremlin). From my experience most split shot on the market today are already non toxics, so it shouldn't be difficult finding another brand. The best advice i can give you for keeping it on the line is really clamp down on it with forceps or pliers, even after that i'd say i probably loose 1-2 before i can get one to stay on. Best luck!

 

[leakywaders]

Try the tungsten putty it stays put and you can add and remove it as neccesary. The only thing is in the cold you need to keep it close to your body so it stays a little warm it just makes it easier to work with.

 

[eddavidson9]

the gremlin shot is ok and there is other stuff that holds well too.

LW, i have trouble keeping the putty in-place; how do you keep it from sliding down the line?

 

[eddavidson9]

also, be careful crimping down too hard, might damage the line and if it deforms the shot too much, it might actually hinder it gripping.

 

[jlajoie]

Try using multiple small pieces, instead of one big one..also, if you are fishing water that is fast enough that you have to use bigger shot, Try looping your leader around the shot, then crimping it. I remember my dad used to tie an overhand knot, then crimp the shot right on top of it, but I am still a bit skeptical of that method!

 

[PAflyguy]

Try using multiple small pieces, instead of one big one..also, if you are fishing water that is fast enough that you have to use bigger shot, Try looping your leader around the shot, then crimping it. I remember my dad used to tie an overhand knot, then crimp the shot right on top of it, but I am still a bit skeptical of that method!

yeah i've done the overhand knot method. It does a great job keeping your split shot in place but it really weakens your leader's strength and it's difficult/impossible to move the split shot up and down the leader to adjust for different current speeds.

 

[coolkyle]

I used to have problems keeping the Dinsmores split shot on, then I figured out that I was trying to cast split shot like it's a dry fly. Now I throw a slower, open loop/lob, and I can pinch the shot 5" above my fly and cast for hours without it slipping.

 

[drumik]

What's about using weighted flies?

Use heavy weighted fly as the dropper in place of the split shot

I had moderate success with it (don't have enought time fishing)

 

[Karel]

I only use Mojo Mud exclusively. Easy on, easy off. Just make sure, when using during warm weather, to dip it into the water first before casting - this will help it staying in place.

 

[Pete]

I also prefer weighted flys. The water has to be pretty high before I'll resort to shot.

But if you feel the need, there's another alternative...
Remember the "Toobie" guy?
http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBullet...everything-else/t2601-toobie-shot-system.html

I haven't tried them yet, but I'm starting to see them listed in catalogs...

 

[AKSkim]

Just make sure, when using during warm weather, to dip it into the water first before casting - this will help it staying in place.

not so easy to do this in November. Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

He stated that in the summer .. you know WARM WEATHER MONTHS.. he fishes with dry flies (just so you know, they float on top).

So please review his quote and notice he asked about the month of NOVEMBER !

As always, willing to educate any DIP.

AK Skim

 

[jlajoie]

The weighted fly option is a good one. Out west, some refer to it as a "Bunker Buster". A big, heavy streamer trailing two lighter flies. drops down into those deep holes, and gives you three chances to hook a fish!

 

[HooliganTroutBum]

He stated that in the summer .. you know WARM WEATHER MONTHS.. he fishes with dry flies (just so you know, they float on top).

So please review his quote and notice he asked about the month of NOVEMBER !

As always, willing to educate any DIP.

AK Skim

Obviously, on how to insert head up one's own ass.

Moldable Tungsten binds together better under cold water conditions, which is why he dips it in water that is much cooler than one's body temp, even in the summer, DIPSHIT.

I only use Mojo Mud exclusively = All year round, no exceptions, DIPSHIT.

:looser:

 

[Karel]

AKSkim,
back in school, i got one of the best advice before taking a test: Read The Fxxxing Question!

Well, to you I would have to say: Read The Fxxxing Answer!

Now, go chill, have a Corona and tie some flies.

 

[skipper3245]

Tin Boss (might be boss tin) w.e but it works just fine. I dont use forceps, i just use my teeth and get some nice dental coverage.

 

[trico mike]

The whole lead shot debate is a funny thing. The main reason behind the change from lead to other metals is duck population declines and lead poisining in water foul. While the change in the laws regarding lead shot and duck hunters (wich I'am) was a very good thing the switching from lead to other non tox shot for fishing is negligable at best. Waterfowl would ingest the small lead shot thinking it was food and some would die from lead poisining. Most rivers we fish in this area are not major stop over points for water fowl. They prefer marshes and ponds or lakes. Yes we all see tons of geese and ducks while fishing but these birds are largley residents that do not migrate. Rivers could do without the pollution that these birds do by crapping in them all the time. The migratory water fowl population faces much greater obstacles then fisherman using lead shot. Loss of breeding grounds and the pollution of many bays along there routes are much bigger problems.So if you use lead don't feel to bad because you are not really doing that much harm. Funny thing is most guys now won't use lead but they will crimp thet non tox onto flurocarbon leader wich takes way longer to biodegrade then mono. I will continue to fish with lead until I see some major studies that show the rivers are being polluted from it. Hey if a few local geese eat my lead shot and die it won't be a bad thing especially if I don't have to deal with them landing in the pod of rising fish I'am working.

 

[gadfly]

I have to disagree. There are plenty of waterfowl that use our rivers, for migration stop over points, breeding, and wintering. Particularly the large rivers like the Delaware and Raritan, and their tribs. There's plenty of opportunity for lead poisoning. Plus, there's the bald eagles and peregrines that feed on the waterfowl. I for one will accept the inconvenience of non-toxic weight.
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[Twism]

For the Dinsmoores you just really, really need to clamp down hard. Clamp down on the open end of the shot, not the closed end if you get when i mean. You can also squeeze real hard towards one end and flatten it out a little creating a tighter fit. Sometimes they still move but if you really wrench on them it can be fixed.

 

[Trout Nazi]

I have to disagree. There are plenty of waterfowl that use our rivers, for migration stop over points, breeding, and wintering. Particularly the large rivers like the Delaware and Raritan, and their tribs. There's plenty of opportunity for lead poisoning. Plus, there's the bald eagles and peregrines that feed on the waterfowl. I for one will accept the inconvenience of non-toxic weight.
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With lead shot, you're talking about a needle in a haystack scenario. Hunting is different, you're spraying 20-50 lead pellets evenly over still water that is part of the migratory pattern of fowl year after year, decade after decade. How much lead are fisherman distributing? If you count up all of the lead you lost over the last year, its probably still half as much as one shot of a high-brass load. Next time your fishing someplace, like say the Gorge that gets fished to death year round, reach down and scoop up a pile of gravel, see how much lead you find. Go down to Raritan Bay where it all ends up, see how much split-shot you find. I'm not really convinced that lead split shot is killing all of the ducks.

Maybe lack of habitat has more to do with it?

 

[Eagle Claw]

Has anyone tried that Tube Shot System. Its a piece of plastic tubing that you shove what looks like buck shot in after you slide the leader in. I would think that with the long sleek style and soft outer covering it would be less likely to hang up.

 

[Trout Nazi]

Has anyone tried that Tube Shot System. Its a piece of plastic tubing that you shove what looks like buck shot in after you slide the leader in. I would think that with the long sleek style and soft outer covering it would be less likely to hang up.

Another option, which I don't know if anyone mentioned yet, is to use a small piece of shot (lead or tin), and mold the tungsten putty over it. Solves the problem of both things moving.

I just tie all of my nymphs with tungsten beads and weighted bodies now and fish multi-fly rigs making sure there is always one heavy-ass fly on there to get it all down. Tired of playing with shot.

 

[NJpatbee]

I also tie most of my nymphs with tungsten bead heads and non-lead weighted bodies. Rarely do I need additional weight, and if I do I will use the putty. I never liked fishing with shot, mainly because of the inconvenience.

As for lead vs. non-lead and the effect that fly-anglers have, I agree that it is nothing like lead-shot used for duck hunting. However, why risk any damage at all when there are alternatives?

 

[GARYB]

I never understood the big deal with split shot lead. I mean are guys walking around
dropping shot all over the banks ? Well maybe it would help get rid of the geese. I only
lose my split shot once in a while snagged on the bottom, usually deep and fast.
Mainly I use beadheads without any shot anyway. I'm just saying how many shot do you
lose in a year ? Also lead is much cheaper than substitute.

 

[Drossi]

Been using the Dinsmore shot for years without issue. I find I cast it off as often as I used to do with lead. Of course I'm not heaving the F'er over my head all day long either. No issues casting my nymphs or streamers with it, I just use a flip cast or roll cast.

I prefer shot to weighted flies because I can add or subtract based upon the stream section. With a weighted fly I'm locked in to whatever weight it is, may have to add shot anyway for faster sections but if you hit a slower pool you may hang up too much to fish it effectively. The only recourse then is to change flies.

 

[JeffK]

I still use lead shot, but know some of the researchers that discovered the problem in Great South Bay, LI back in the 70's. It is a real problem in marshes - but don't know if the shot fishermen lose compares to the lead distributed around by the market gunners of old. However, I do believe lead poisoning is one of the reasons our waterfowl populations are only a fragment of what they were 100 years ago.

Weighted fly, unweighted fly. I love the "European" style of nymphing in broken water, like many of the Pocono streams. There it is heavily weighted nymphs and no shot (or maybe one or two in an extreme case - I am not competing). However, in slower water an unweighted/lightly weighted nymph has much better action IMHO. Sometimes even tying the unweighted nymph with some type of loop knot helps to give it more action and catch more fish. In this style of nymphing a split shot or two is essential to get the fly down. In the Pequest I am usually long distance nymphing with unweighted flies, some small split shot a foot or so from the flies, and with no indicator or an indicator (not a bobber!) 6 ft to 9 ft from the flies. At Ressica Falls on the Bushkill I almost always have a pair of weighted nymphs with no added shot on. Some days I will even indicator fish with shot and unweighted nymphs.

You have to do whatever gets the nymph in front of the fish in a natural way while maintaining a feel for the nymphs. That changes with conditions. However, my favorite is long distance nymphing to trout in shallow water that can be spotted and where an indicator floating over their head will spook them. That's why I like the Pequest or the big flat on Spring Creek at the lower end of Fisherman's Paradise. I like Czech nymphing pocket water almost as well. Covering ground at Ressica Falls or one of the many Gorges in the NJ/NY/PA region to remain un-named (oddly enough I don't care for the KLG) is also a great way to spend a day.

 

[coolkyle]

I find sight-fishing with small beadhead nymphs to be nymph fishing's equivalent to dry fly fishing. The beadhead makes the fly easier to track on sunny days, so you know that your fly is nearby when the fish opens its mouth (time to set the hook). I fell in love with this tactic over the summer, and I now use it whenever I find trout in shallow, clear water.

 

[ajfromnj]

Jeff,

Very good post there! I also like to use very light nymphs on a long leader in shallow water. The only place where I differ is that I really don't use a short leader set up frequently when using heavier flies. I uses set up with the indicator placed mid leader and the butt section is a very long piece of heavy mono. I can fish with as short or as long a leader that I need with this. Casting is not difficult with the heavy flies.

Coolkyle,

I also enjoy sight fishing. It's a blast, especialy when the fish are big. If you like that type of fishing, you need to fishing the Taylor River in Colorado ASAP!

 

[coolkyle]

I will fishing Colorado as soon as I can. In fact, I've been throwing around the idea of taking a quick camping/rent a car trip out to Denver (plane tickets to Denver cost about $200 and 3 hours less than to Montana) next July. Had the Blue and South Platte in mind, but will be researching the Taylor, thanks!