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Bamboo addict

MACFLY

MACFLY

Too many streams too little time
Ok thanks to Broadheadscreek, I am in the process of acquiring a couple of bamboo rods. I may have developed a new addiction..this is not good. Allen I hold you responsible for this. Is there a 12 step program for me:)

One question I have is the following. I have seen on E-bay a few project rods which are basically bamboo rods that have some defects but can be restored. Many of these are South bend, Montagues, and some that are less recognizable. Wondering if anyone has a sense of what is fair value for these kind of project rods. Which rods are best for project rods?
 
I do a lot of fixing up old beaters and that is a big question. Nothing like learning.

Montague, South Bend etc were big companies that made a lot of rods. The better ones are OK, the cheaper ones are crap. Generally, I look for nickle silver hardware (better rods have nickel silver hardware, cheaper ones have plated brass) and all rod sections the same length. Mid grade rods commonly had the silk wrapped to the edge of the ferrules; the better ones had the silk wrapped over thinned sections of ferrule. Splicing new tips is not for the beginner. In addition, bamboo being a natural material some rods of the same model act differently. SB 323 is their top model; Montague Rapidan, Fishkill, Manitou, etc are decent rods. The antique Montagues are not generally labelled. Often old steel guides are rusted and there are too few. Adding new guides is easy.

The other issue is that the glue that holds the ferrules on often dries out and the rods "click," This will eat up the bamboo at the ferrule quickly and needs to be fixed. Not a hard job if the ferrules weren't pinned!!! Need to get/make small pin punches and a jig to punch the pins out sometimes.

Ferrule wear is an issue. 80% of the time the beaters don't go together because the ferrules are dirty. Avoid really beat up ferrules, but often you have to take a chance. The typically fit nicely when cleaned up, but are often too loose when cleaned. There are a number of home remedies for loose ferrules, but none are great for a hard fished rod.

Steer clear of the Japanese rods in wooden boxes. Antiques Roadshow just had one of these sets on so everybody is getting them out of their closets. But don't go there.

Better rods like Thomas, Heddon, Phillipson, Granger etc generally don't come cheap. However, sometimes you luck out - especially if the rod if missing a tip. That kills collector value, but a rod with one good tip will certainly make a fine fishing rod.

One big issue is length and weight. 9' in a 6/7 wt was the standard in not that long ago, and 100 years ago the rods were generally 10' and up. These are heavy to modern tastes and often come more cheaply. The shorter (8' and less), lighter bamboo rods that people prefer today are harder to find, and as a result more expensive. I like the old beasts just for histories sake - some are heavy wet noodles, but some are surprisingly light in hand.

I am a bottom feeder. I buy inexpensive rods that need work for no more than half of what that are worth and fix them up. This is my form of gambling. My favorites are Calcutta cane rods from the 1890s and glass rods from the 1950s since these were periods of experimenting with new materials. Mostly I do OK with this strategy, but occassionally get a turkey. However, the longer I do it the less turkeys I am stuck with. Fixed up rods will never have real collectability, but I like getting an old warrior fishing again.
 
Thanks guys

Jeff as always you provide a wealth of information. The last couple of weeks I have seen a bunch of bamboo rods go up on e-bay. The best one was a heddon peerless that had never been fished and still had the the cork handle shrink wrapped in plastic. The rod started out a 150.00 but by the time it was all said and done the winning bid was almost 1700.00 dollars. The best deal I saw on one of the better bamboo rods was a Phillipson pacemaker rod that went for about 152.00 bucks.

Pete thanks for the link. Im sure it will come in handy.
 
MACFLY said:
Ok thanks to Broadheadscreek, I am in the process of acquiring a couple of bamboo rods. I may have developed a new addiction..this is not good. Allen I hold you responsible for this. Is there a 12 step program for me:)

One question I have is the following. I have seen on E-bay a few project rods which are basically bamboo rods that have some defects but can be restored. Many of these are South bend, Montagues, and some that are less recognizable. Wondering if anyone has a sense of what is fair value for these kind of project rods. Which rods are best for project rods?
Click to expand...

The weekend after Labor Day, I think, is the bamboo rodbuilders gathering at the Catskill Fly Fishing Museum.

I'd recommend that you go to the gathering and cast some rods made by the best makers in the world.

Also, go to the show in Somerset in January. There are MANY excellent builders there that are happy to let you cast their wares.
 
I also found some nice glass rods for sale. One is a Heddon Mark 3 that is in great shape. 7.5 feet with case. Its going for about 140.00. Wondering if that is too high or if its a rod that could go for more money.
 
My buddy had an old bamboo junker laying around. It had a sticker on it that said flash. The rod had a brown varnish on it coating the bamboo. It was a trhee peice rod. I took the tip and middle section stripped all the old finish on it used some fine steel wool to smooth it out then spar varnished it put on the reel seat grip and wrapped it. I had the reel seat and guides laying around so I only had to buy the grip and the silk and varnish. I now have a nice small stream rod 6'4 for a 4 weight. It casts nice handles fish nice and doesn't look to bad for my first try at wrapping a rod. Total cost 40 bucks. Plus it was real fun to work on and only took about 10 hours thru the course of a couple days.
 
Well I just got in the mail today a reproduction of a Hardy Bamboo built on a Marvel taper. Absolutely sweet rod with great flaming and a nice reel seat made of rosewood. Its a 3/4 weight and I cant wait to go fishing with it.
 
MACFLY said:
Well I just got in the mail today a reproduction of a Hardy Bamboo built on a Marvel taper. Absolutely sweet rod with great flaming and a nice reel seat made of rosewood. Its a 3/4 weight and I cant wait to go fishing with it.
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Macfly. how much did that little hottie run you?
 
325.00 on E-bay delivered. No tube but I have also bought a custom square wooden tube case on e-bay as well.
 
MACFLY said:
Trouser Trout the name of the company that sold it on Ebay is. Fine Fly Fishing Tackle And Bamboo Blanks From The Angler's Roost The Rod was built by one of their custom rod builders. The site gives you an idea of some of their blanks. The presidential series is the one I would look at.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna talk with authority on this one, TT, cuz this guy's gonna lead you to own some piece of shit.

Go to the gathering at the Museum in the Catskills, or go to Somerset.

YOU CANNOT OWN A BAMBOO ROD WITHOUT CASTING IT FIRST. YOU NEED TO KNOW THE BUILDER PERSONALLY.
 
MACFLY said:
Trouser Trout if you have any more questions let me know.
Click to expand...

Contact me if you want a good answer.

The greatest builders in the world will gladly let you cast their wares. I'll say it one last time!! You go to the rod builders' gathering at the museum in the Catskills, this September, or you go to Somerset in January 2011.

Meet the builder personally before you buy a rod. Cast it. Each bamboo rod has its own personality.

My friend bought a blank once. He doesn't use it.

Now he's got a nice rod from a top notch builder and it is amazing.

Same goes for my bamboo.
 
you both make good sense on purchasing bamboo rods......i know nothing about them.....other than they look beautiful and can be quite pricey......... as i said i just haven't gotten the bug for one yet..... but being an extremely versatile and talented man of great intellect who is also resourceful, charming and witty, I'll bet if i purchased a builders guide or a couple of books on the topic I would quickly master the art of bamboo rod making and set the new standard for premium bamboo rods...... I just don't know if it is worth my effort.......
 
Trouser Trout said:
you both make good sense on purchasing bamboo rods......i know nothing about them.....other than they look beautiful and can be quite pricey......... as i said i just haven't gotten the bug for one yet..... but being an extremely versatile and talented man of great intellect who is also resourceful, charming and witty, I'll bet if i purchased a builders guide or a couple of books on the topic I would quickly master the art of bamboo rod making and set the new standard for premium bamboo rods...... I just don't know if it is worth my effort.......
Click to expand...

Well I make perfect sense.. The other guy is an Oxygen thief:looser: Seriously thought I see no reason to spend a lot of money at this point. The rod I received is excellent and will be a lot of fun to fish with. The site I gave you has a bunch of different blanks all made from the guide Goulds tips and tapers so they emulate some of the classic tapers from some of the best bamboo makers back in the day. Good luck if you decide to make on on your own.
 
I would never attempt to make one on my own, but you both make sense to me on one hand if are particular I can understand wishing to cast a rod first... on the other hand if you can pick up something that is at a great price and is quality i understand that as well. The only person that matters in your purchase is you.
 
Trouser Trout said:
I would never attempt to make one on my own, but you both make sense to me on one hand if are particular I can understand wishing to cast a rod first... on the other hand if you can pick up something that is at a great price and is quality i understand that as well. The only person that matters in your purchase is you.
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Chris Bogart is a rodbuilder from Virginia. He offers, I believe, rod building classes. You plane the bamboo yourself, glue it together, cook it in an oven, etc.

I'm sure others do the same thing.

While you may not be interested, rodbuilding is not totally inaccessible to the average fly fisherman. If you are inspired to go to the rod builders gathering at the fly fishing museum in the Catskills this September, well, you'll get a good sense of what you need to buy in order to get into this craft.

I am not a builder, but I appreciate folks with special skills and abilities that I don't have. Rodbuilders are, in my opinion, the coolest people in the fly fishing world. That's why, TT, I am pushing the gathering so strongly to you. You would love it.

That said, I am not a builder, just an avid fan of bamboo.
 
golden beetle said:
........YOU CANNOT OWN A BAMBOO ROD WITHOUT CASTING IT FIRST. YOU NEED TO KNOW THE BUILDER PERSONALLY.
Click to expand...
I've had mixed results (50-50) buying cane without first casting the rod.
  • Orvis Madison 8', 4 wt, "Nymph": Totally unsuited to my casting/fishing style. Action like a wet noodle. (hate it).

    Hardy 6', 5 wt, Palakona: An expensive way to find out I don't like short rods (never use it).

    Sharps "Scotty" 7-1/2', 5 wt: One of my Favorites for small drys. (love it).

    Philipson 7', 5 wt: Another favorite for small drys with light tippets. It "underlines" nicely, I usually use it with a 4 wt line. (love it).
I guess all these were "Production" rods, so comparing them to custom builders isn't fair, but buying without "trying" has been a bit of a "crap-shoot" for me. I don't do that anymore.

Disclaimer: The Orvis and the Philipson were purchased as blanks, casting was not an option.
 
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Pete said:
I've had mixed results (50-50) buying cane without first casting the rod.
  • Orvis Madison 8'-4wt, "Nymph": Totally unsuited to my casting/fishing style. Action like a wet noodle. (hate it).

    Hardy 6', 5wt, Palakona: An expensive way to find out I don't like short rods (never use it).

    Sharps "Scotty" 7-1/2', 5 wt: One of my Favorites for small drys. (love it).

    Philipson 7', 5 wt: Another favorite for small drys with light tippets. It "underlines" nicely, I usually use it with a 4 wt line. (love it).
The Orvis and the Philipson were purchased as blanks, casting was not an option.

I guess all these were "Production" rods, so comparing them to custom builders isn't fair, but buying without "trying" has been a bit of a "crap-shoot" for me.
Click to expand...

Let me clarify that it is not difficult to get to "know" the rodbuilder. At the rodbuilders' gathering in the Catskills in September, there will be dozens of builders. Their rods will be available for casting. You don't even have to ask, really. You just pick up the rod and start casting. Treat it with respect, and show respect to the builders that they deserve.

At the Somerset show, the cane contingent is also STRONG! Ask to cast the rods, and the builders all say yes. You can also find some pretty good deals for cane rods at the Somerset show. I got mine for 700 dollars. That is dirt cheap for a high quality cane rod.

Finally, the reason you need to cast the rods first is that cane is not graphite. All the talk of tapers in the bamboo world sort of frustrates me, because I think it misses the point. Sure, it is important to have some standardization in any craft, but with cane, you can cast two similarly crafted rods by the same maker and have a different experience with each rod. Not dramatic, but if you buy a z-axis rod, it will cast exactly the same as another z-axis rod.

I'd compare bamboo rods to high-end guitars, like Martins or Taylors. The wood is unique to each finished guitar. Sure, you may know you want a Martin D-28. But if you don't play it before you buy it, you may not get what you want, need, or expect.

If you do try it, however, you get the instrument of a lifetime.
 
TT I have been casting my rod the last couple of days....guess what its wonderful. BTW no one bothered to ask but the rod came with a money back guarantee. Now not all rods on Ebay will come with that but you can see for yourself if/when you bid so you will know in advance what to expect. Finally Im not pushing you to do anything least of all journey to the Catskills for a weekend and spend 700 or more dollars on a bamboo rod. I happen to like what I purchased and would recommend it to anyone. Your mileage may vary.
 
MACFLY said:
TT I have been casting my rod the last couple of days....guess what its wonderful. BTW no one bothered to ask but the rod came with a money back guarantee. Now not all rods on Ebay will come with that but you can see for yourself if/when you bid so you will know in advance what to expect. Finally Im not pushing you to do anything least of all journey to the Catskills for a weekend and spend 700 or more dollars on a bamboo rod. I happen to like what I purchased and would recommend it to anyone. Your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...

You did well, Macfly.

But I think the average fly fisherman who buys a 325 dollar blank doesn't even know how to put on the wraps.

Learning how to space out the guides is difficult enough. Yeah, it ain't terrifically complicated, but requires some work and research.

Putting on the wraps is complicated tho. You can make the rod look pretty bad if you do it wrong.

Finally, I would buy a graphite blank, without casting it, but never a bamboo blank. Too much risk.
 
GB

For the sake of Trouser Trout and his wallet I will respond to your post. I didnt buy a blank. I bought a bamboo rod fully assembled (3 piece 2 tips Hardy Marvel Taper). It was built on a hand planed tonkin cane blank that was flamed. I read reviews of the gentleman who built it. He does excellent work. Now I may someday go out and buy a more expensive bamboo rod if I am inclined but the one I just bought is simply a great rod with some high end hardware like german nickel silver ferrules, burlwood grip, carbaloy agate stripping guide and so on. Its certainly worth more than what I paid for it. Its going to be a great fishing rod which is what I bought it for. For someone who is just looking into a bamboo rod 700 dollars is just too steep a price. Better to start with a quality rod at a reasonable price. Plenty of time to spend lots of money if you decide cane is all you want to fish.
 
First I would like to say I'm sorry Paul for getting you hooked on Boo. That being said it seems as though you are making informed purchases and it is great to see there is a return policy in case you do not like the action. Although I still have and use my very first fly rod a 8 1/2' Montague Sunbeam which by the way is a great rod a little heavy but still a nice rod for the money. I have grown into some high end rods and love everyone I own. But in doing so when you are going to part with big money you need to cast them several times to be sure it is an action you will like and use. I definitely would not drop 1500-3000 on a rod I did not cast. The bottom line here is get what you like and fits your needs and budget. Ronbo should chime in on this one as he is our resident rod builder and he builds some exquisite fly rods that are reasonably priced. Also we have JKlett , Jason builds mighty fine fly rods at a price point that will fit most people on this sights budget . If you would like a true investment piece I can put you in touch with Bob Taylor you can get a true work of art from one of the best cane builders in the country it will be around $3000 but worth every penny.:)
 
MACFLY said:
GB

For the sake of Trouser Trout and his wallet I will respond to your post. I didnt buy a blank. I bought a bamboo rod fully assembled (3 piece 2 tips Hardy Marvel Taper). It was built on a hand planed tonkin cane blank that was flamed. I read reviews of the gentleman who built it. He does excellent work. Now I may someday go out and buy a more expensive bamboo rod if I am inclined but the one I just bought is simply a great rod with some high end hardware like german nickel silver ferrules, burlwood grip, carbaloy agate stripping guide and so on. Its certainly worth more than what I paid for it. Its going to be a great fishing rod which is what I bought it for. For someone who is just looking into a bamboo rod 700 dollars is just too steep a price. Better to start with a quality rod at a reasonable price. Plenty of time to spend lots of money if you decide cane is all you want to fish.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you did pretty well for yourself. The bottom line is that you like the way the rod casts.

I've got no issues with somebody who buys a bamboo rod the way you did.

But I'd strongly recommend that people interested in bamboo look into the builders that make the annual journey to the Catskills museum. This is a special group of folks.
 
Broadheadscreek said:
Ronbo should chime in on this one
Click to expand...
But GB was doing so well.:rofl:
If believe it is always best to cast a rod before you decide if that rod is for you.
Everyone has a different casting style and preference.
As for custom built rods, they are built for a specific rod action or casting style.
I will interveiw a customer on what types of flie's, water, casting lenth, and size of the fish he will be targeting.
all this info will be used to determine what rod taper and size will best suit them.
I have built rods for people that have casted the rod and I have built rods designed only on the information that the customer supplied.
By talking with the builder you can get a rod built to your specifications and fishing style and usualy a demo to boot.
Plus picking out color schemes and hardware. The customs are more expensive at least double to triple the cost of a production rod but you will end up with one rod you love instead of two that you might find mediocure at best.
If you want to get into, cast or just look, there are a number of bamboo gatherings and casting events.
Sept 12 in the afternoon is open casting at the Catskills Rod makers Gathering located at CFFCM. I will be there as well as a large number of builders
Boofest held in June at Ronbo lodge in the Catskills
Shannon's has a bamboo casting event in NJ
The Somerset fly fishing show is a great place to find Rods, talk to builders and cast new and used Rods.
So get out there and casts some boo:victory:
For those of you who missed Boofest, Dave Brandt brought one of Art flicks Personal Rods.
It was the highlight of my weekend to cast a piece of History.

boofestflickrodbrant003-1.jpg
 
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Thank you Ronbo for that informative post. Was looking for you a few weeks ago up at the museum CJ was there we had a great time and I even got to toss one of his new builds . Hes onto something pretty good. Will we see you in Connecticut this year?:)
 
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