Mainstem

[dcabarle]

I floated the D today from Stockport to Buckingham. There were quite a few boats on the river today and more are expected for tomorrow. The WB isn't floatable which means all boats will be on the Main. Expect a convoy tomorrow.

I hooked into a pretty small brown today 10" or so, and worked another fish for about an hour only to find that when I hooked it, it was a chub.

Is the WB Angler the only Orvis approved guide service? I had one guy cut right in front of me while I was trying to get into a spot. That was annoying.

Tomorrow, there is a chance of rain, we'll see how that goes.

If this river traffic keeps up like this, I'm going to have to fish somewhere else!

Lots of caddis, some hendricksons, midges, and a few gray fox's. If you're coming up on Saturday, you should be able to wade the WB with Zero Boat pressure.

 

[BobHoog]

Last week....

Hi Dennis

A buddy and I floated the Main stem last week. It was our first ever guided trip and first time in a drift boat. We launched in Hancock and floated about 6-8 miles. We had a great time, saw a bunch of fish, good sized delaware browns and bows, but both of us being novice fly casters we had a hard time dealing with 30mph headwinds. I hooked 3 and landed a small bow, and wayne landed a nice 19" Brown on a olive caddis or a rusty spinner, I dont remember, It was his first trout ever on a fly rod. What a way to break the ice huh? Our guide was Daren from the Baxter House in Rosco he was verry courtious to the other fisherman and worked his tail off to keep us on fish all day. I would deffinatly recomend him if anyone was looking for a guide.....

Anyway what do you mean when you say the WB isn't floatable, is it too low?

 

[dcabarle]

Hi Bob,

This morning the water FLOW at Hale Eddy is 217 (The current plan that is effect allows the water to trickle down to what apears to be 10cfs, although it hasn't hit that just yet). This means that floating the West Branch on a day like today would require you to literally drag your boat throughout much of the West branch.

This morning (Saturday May 14th) the ramp at Shehawken looks anemic.

Glad your trip last week was so successfull. When the water is up, drifting is the only way to fish the Delaware. It allows you to cover so much great water. What the water level also does is assures that all boats are not concentraded in 1 place.

Todays weather looks promising for fishing. Can't wait to get in the water.

Hi Dennis

A buddy and I floated the Main stem last week. It was our first ever guided trip and first time in a drift boat. We launched in Hancock and floated about 6-8 miles. We had a great time, saw a bunch of fish, good sized delaware browns and bows, but both of us being novice fly casters we had a hard time dealing with 30mph headwinds. I hooked 3 and landed a small bow, and wayne landed a nice 19" Brown on a olive caddis or a rusty spinner, I dont remember, It was his first trout ever on a fly rod. What a way to break the ice huh? Our guide was Daren from the Baxter House in Rosco he was verry courtious to the other fisherman and worked his tail off to keep us on fish all day. I would deffinatly recomend him if anyone was looking for a guide.....

Anyway what do you mean when you say the WB isn't floatable, is it too low?

 

[jaydub]

I was able to float the WB from Deposit on the last day there was water available - 5/12 - Thursday. Hit a morning caddis hatch and had a great time - client landed 7 trout out of 9 hook-ups. Must fish and biggest fish he ever caught. BWO, LBJ's and Hendricksons all day and allot of wind. Great rusty spinners in the evening - many fish feeding.

Oh well, no more water on the WB. We are at that 225 cfs FLOW number and normal for this time of year is 1000 cfs.

 

[oasis man]

Median is not Normal

The Median for this time of year is around 900cfs for the WB at Hale Eddy. This means that there are just as many years that the flow is below 900 cfs as there are years when the flow is above 900 cfs. Note: the median is not the same as the average, which is the sum of the flows for all years devided by the total number of years.
Without the current flow agreement, the flow would be around 100cfs. It's not a perfect world.
OM

 

[jaydub]

A flow of 225 cfs should never been an agreed to flow.

 

[hookjaw]

Crowding on the main stem

Dennis i have to agree with you 100% about the crowds. Fished the main stem on Sat the14th and it was a zoo. As if the amount of guys on the river wasnt enough i had drift boat after drift boat coming through and one boat actually cut right through my hole as i was playing a fish and cut my line . All i could do was just laugh but it does show that some of these so called guides have little respect for other anglers. My fishing report is that there are plenty of fish around if you can get to the stream early enough to secure a spot.The guys getting to the stream after 8am will find it hard to get a good spot.This season could be a rough one if the streams dont get some water soon also the water temps are skyrocketing each day as the water gets lower and lower. I might not fish much into June if these conditions keep up just to give the fish a break . I dont think i will be going up on the weekend any more it's just too frustrating trying to find any good water to fish on the weekend with all the crowding.Tight lines

 

[Future Fanatic]

C'mon!
Crowds are GREAT for the local economies!!!
If it's this crowded NOW, wait until we fix that whole release issue!
KLG here we come!!!

Maximize those resources!!!

 

[dcabarle]

C'mon!
Crowds are GREAT for the local economies!!!
If it's this crowded NOW, wait until we fix that whole release issue!
KLG here we come!!!

Maximize those resources!!!

True to a point. At least if there was some water, they could be spread out on the WB as well as the Main.

 

[dcabarle]

Dennis i have to agree with you 100% about the crowds. Fished the main stem on Sat the14th and it was a zoo. As if the amount of guys on the river wasnt enough i had drift boat after drift boat coming through and one boat actually cut right through my hole as i was playing a fish and cut my line . All i could do was just laugh but it does show that some of these so called guides have little respect for other anglers. My fishing report is that there are plenty of fish around if you can get to the stream early enough to secure a spot.The guys getting to the stream after 8am will find it hard to get a good spot.This season could be a rough one if the streams dont get some water soon also the water temps are skyrocketing each day as the water gets lower and lower. I might not fish much into June if these conditions keep up just to give the fish a break . I dont think i will be going up on the weekend any more it's just too frustrating trying to find any good water to fish on the weekend with all the crowding.Tight lines

Where were you fishing? Did you see the wooden drift boat full of clowns (4 of them). It looked like the Ringling Bros. train. They pulled up behind me at one point and all four of them got out of the boat and fished. I took a few photo's of some drift boats that I thought were lacking on the courteous side, but didn't get one of the circus ship. I ran into a friend on my way down who later on also told me about the ship of fools boat. He said they cut right down the pool he and a friend had been watching for a while. He said he asked them what they were doing and the reply was 'FU'. Nice group of guys. I won't be buying tickets to their show anytime soon. One guy I took a picture of asked me in a stern voice, "What's the picture for". If you have to ask, I think you know. I told him it's going to be placed on a website but forgot to mention that he and his boat # will be placed on the 'Guides of little ettiquete' page. Who is boat number 49 (orvis guide). He snaked me on Friday. I only got the back of his head. If I'm on the river and you're being an a-hole, I'm taking your picture and plastering it all over the internet.

I got pulled over in Stockport by a warden. He was checking for PFD's and license's. Two guys behind me were both handed $50.00 fines for not having PFD's. First time for everything.

Yesterday's fishing was great. I caught 5, maybe 6 rainbows all in the 12-13" range and 1 that was in the 16" range. The 12 - 13"ers were all very acrobatic. Each one of them jumped at least twice and made my reel sing more than once. As a matter of fact, these fish were so strong, I can't recall EVER hearing line being taken out so fast. It was an incredible day for fishing. I didn't find the crowds to be as bad as I'd expected yesterday. I did see a few boats, but it wasn't like last week. The way I look at it is most of the people can't fish anyway (the ship of fools)... So they don't bother the fish too much.

I got a few pics of a bald eagle which I'll post later on today.

 

[hookjaw]

Overcrowding

Hi. Dennis i was fishing the long eddy area and below.You are definately right again about the crowds. No competition as far as the fish go i can still get into a hole and catch fish after most guys have just fished it but it still gets frustrating riding around from spot to spot and seeing guys fishing spots where i know there are fish to be caught and seeing guys not catching anything or totally fishing in the wrong areas. I know that sounds a little selfish and i was their a one point but thats how i feel. Like they say 10% catch most of the fish and 90% just fish.Also like you said if we had more water i dont think we would be feeling this pressure so much everyone would be spread out a little more. I think it's a little tougher for the guys that have been fishing in the catskills for 20 or 30 years to see this kind of crowding. The days of fishing a saturday and maybe seeing 2 or 3 other fishermen all day have been gone for a while but being only 38 i still can remember a lot of days like that.Tight lines

 

[bjmiller]

Oasis Man,

"The Median for this time of year is around 900cfs for the WB at Hale Eddy. This means that there are just as many years that the flow is below 900 cfs as there are years when the flow is above 900 cfs. Note: the median is not the same as the average, which is the sum of the flows for all years devided by the total number of years.
Without the current flow agreement, the flow would be around 100cfs. It's not a perfect world. "

While you are correct about the definition of the median, the mean should be the average. For May 17th, the median is 740 CFS and the mean is 1019 CFS. When is the work going to begin on deciding what goes into the "next" plan? Who will be providing input? This year is getting set up for staying at about 225 CFS at Hale Eddy ALL SUMMER, unless we get some significant rain in a hurry. It will be some time before the Montague target comes into play, since Montague has been over 3000 CFS for a while now. Under this plan, less water will be released than previous plans. More "drops" will be saved.

Bruce

 

[Big_Spinner]

Hi Bruce,

It looks like we are on track for a "normal" summer. Without much rain in the forcast, we will get releases for Montague by next week. Sad to say that I still hope for a drought so that the West Branch and Main stem fish great all summer. All natural streams of course suffer when this happens. At least now in a drought, the EB and Neversink will also have more water than before too.

The new plan is currently being worked on. Hope you can come to the FMTAC and SEF meetings this Thursday in Shawnee to learn what is being done. NOAA and USGS will be there to bring us up to date on their work with forcasting and upgrades to the OASIS model. The more input the better.

See ya,

Jim

 

[bjmiller]

Jim,

I don't see us getting Montague releases by next week. Even if we get not rain, Montague looks like it would only get to between 1500 - 2000 CFS by then. If it's near the lower end, that would mean about 200 CFS would need to be released to get Montague up to the 1750 number, but we are predicted to get some rain between now and next week, so I would bet Montague won't come into play by next week. Luckily, the air temps are not too hot yet, but if we do get another warm spell, the fish are screwed!!!

Won't be able to make the meetings, as much as I would like to attend. My job won't allow me to do that.

Bruce

 

[WB Catechumen]

FMTAC/SEF Meeting

Jim,

Where in Shawnee and what time are the meetings?

Thanks

 

[oasis man]

SEF Meeting on Thursday

Jon,
The meeting is at the Shawnee Inn and Golf Resort. (See their website for driving instructions) The FMTAC meeting starts around 9:30. The SEF meeting is scheduled to start after lunch at around 1:00.
Hope to see you there.
OM

 

[_tr_]

...but we are predicted to get some rain between now and next week, so I would bet Montague won't come into play by next week. [snipped]

Bruce

-------------

As much as I'd like to see a little rain to spread everybody out a bit, no rain is forecast for the next week.

Tight lines,
TR
Narrowsburg, NY
www.delawareriverfishing.com
--------------------------------

244 PM EDT TUE MAY 17 2005

...AREAS OF FROST TONIGHT...

.TONIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY THIS EVENING, THEN MAINLY CLEAR. AREAS OF
FROST AFTER MIDNIGHT. LOWS 30 TO 35 WITH UPPER 20S IN THE COLDEST
VALLEYS. LIGHT WINDS.

.WEDNESDAY...MOSTLY SUNNY IN THE MORNING...THEN MOSTLY CLOUDY IN THE
AFTERNOON. HIGHS AROUND 60. LIGHT WINDS...BECOMING NORTHWEST AROUND
10 MPH IN THE AFTERNOON.

.WEDNESDAY NIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY. LOWS NEAR 40. LIGHT WINDS.
.THURSDAY...PARTLY SUNNY. HIGHS IN THE MID 60S. NORTHWEST WINDS
AROUND 10 MPH.

.THURSDAY NIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY. LOWS IN THE LOWER 40S. NORTHEAST
WINDS AROUND 10 MPH.

.FRIDAY...PARTLY SUNNY. HIGHS IN THE MID 60S.

.FRIDAY NIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY. LOWS IN THE MID 40S.

.SATURDAY...PARTLY SUNNY. HIGHS IN THE MID 60S.

.SATURDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLEAR. LOWS IN THE UPPER 40S.

.SUNDAY...MOSTLY SUNNY. HIGHS AROUND 70.

.SUNDAY NIGHT...MOSTLY CLEAR. LOWS IN THE UPPER 40S.

.MONDAY...PARTLY SUNNY. HIGHS IN THE MID 60S.

.MONDAY NIGHT...PARTLY CLOUDY WITH A 30 PERCENT CHANCE OF SHOWERS.
LOWS AROUND 50.

.TUESDAY...MOSTLY CLOUDY WITH A 30 PERCENT CHANCE OF SHOWERS. HIGHS
IN THE LOWER 60S.

 

[Big_Spinner]

No rain is the best scenario for the WB and mainstem right now. As you said Bruce, temperatures are good now. If we get rain now, then Montague releases will be delayed until later and warmer air temps will be bad. If we do not get any rain ,then Montague releases will kick in while the temperatures are still cool.

Jon, is the 200 release enough to cover and protect the upper stretch of the WB now?
See you in Shawnee on Thursday.

Jim

 

[_tr_]

No rain is the best scenario for the WB and mainstem right now.[snipped]
Jim

------------------

How so?

Many areas of the UDR system are now concentated with anglers and boats as opposed to having more water this spring and spreading those out.

Please explain.
Thank you.
--------------------

If we do not get any rain ,then Montague releases will kick in while the temperatures are still cool.

Jim

--------------------------------

Montague is currently at:

3150 cfs

It's going to take a few more weeks of no rain to get 3150cfs down to 1750cfs.

Your statement only applies if the weather stays cool.

Montague, New Jersey Station Date and Time Height CFS Temperature
USGS 01438500 2005-05-18 05:45 5.61 3150 Not Available

Your statement is confusing or misleading.
Please explain how long it will take for 3150cfs to become 1750cfs at Montague.

TR
www.delawareriverfishing.com


-----------------

 

[Jonboy]

Tony-

I know the question was addressed to Jim, but it looks like the gauge at Montague has dropped 1100 cfs in 7 days.That puts it at around 9 days if there is no rain to drop down to 1750. Lets hope it stays cool.

Jon

 

[Future Fanatic]

------------------

Jim: "No rain is the best scenario for the WB and mainstem right now. As you said Bruce, temperatures are good now. If we get rain now, then Montague releases will be delayed until later and warmer air temps will be bad. If we do not get any rain ,then Montague releases will kick in while the temperatures are still cool."

How so?

Many areas of the UDR system are now concentated with anglers and boats as opposed to having more water this spring and spreading those out.

Please explain.
Thank you
-----------------

It seems you are both talking apples and oranges. Jim seems to be addressing what is best for trout and insects long term and Tony is addressing what is best for trout FISHERMEN short term.

Either way, when you see boats stacked up, just think about those $$$ signs.

 

[dcabarle]

I don't think a 225 flow address's anything. I also know that some shops won't even float when the river is running too low. As a matter of fact, when I ran into Curly the other day on the Mainstem, he was with a client wade fishing and didn't even charge the guy. He was supposed to drift but refused to take the boat out. For some, it's not all about the money.

On another note, as of about 1hr ago, they were releasing 193cfs out of Cannonsville. Current FLOW past Hale Eddy is: 251.

 

[Johnw]

I wonder what the flow rate would be if we didn't have the current plan?

 

[dcabarle]

I wonder what the flow rate would be if we didn't have the current plan?

No need to wonder!

<table align="left" border="1" width="576"> <caption>Daily mean flow statistics for 5/18 based on 91 years of record in ft³/sec</caption> <thead> <tr> <th>Current Flow</th> <th>Minimum</th> <th>Mean</th> <th>Maximum</th> <th>80 percent exceedance</th> <th>50 percent exceedance</th> <th>20 percent exceedance</th></tr></thead> <tbody> <tr align="middle"> <td>251 </td> <td>100</td> <td>1,011</td> <td>3,520</td> <td>349</td> <td>792</td> <td>1,602</td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="7"> Percent exceedance means that 80, 50, or 20 percent of all daily mean flows for 5/18 have been greater than the value shown.

</td></tr></tbody> </table>

 

[Johnw]

History is pretty irrelevant in this case don't you think? The point being that releases began on Friday when the flow got to 225 cfs. Would that have happened without the current plan ? I have no idea but if it didn't happen we could be down around 100cfs by now.

 

[dcabarle]

History is pretty irrelevant in this case don't you think? The point being that releases began on Friday when the flow got to 225 cfs. Would that have happened without the current plan ? I have no idea but if it didn't happen we could be down around 100cfs by now.

We can't thank the plan for the release, they would have eventually released anyway. The flow past Hale Eddy has been under 225 numerous times this year already. It was 217 on Saturday morning.

It would be nice if we had a consistant release. Maybe one day, we'll get something.

 

[Johnw]

Well you know more about than I do I guess - what level would they"have released anyway"? I'll have to pay more attention because I didn't know we've been below 225 numerous times this year - I was probably focusing on the floods.

 

[Future Fanatic]

I think Johnw is posing the question as to what the flow would be at Hale Eddy under the "old plan"(excuse me if I'm wrong Johnw, but it is a good question). Anyone care to answer?

 

[dcabarle]

I think Johnw is posing the question as to what the flow would be at Hale Eddy under the "old plan"(excuse me if I'm wrong Johnw, but it is a good question). Anyone care to answer?

I think you've got a better chance of figuring out if this staircase is going up or down...

The answer is that we really cannot know that answer.

 

[brachycentrus]

Lets look at this from a completely different angle.
The existing wild trout fishery evolved from cold water releases out of Cannonsville.
It did not develop from Papacton or Neversink releases.
Do you think that there would be a wild trout fishery with 225 flow on the West Branch?
OR....................................
How long do you think the present fishery will survive?
I have already caught fish with ripped lips.
The fish are pooling up and with the angler pressure that the system has, I can most definitely see some problems developing.
Right now, we still enjoy relatively cool temps, what happens when the trout seek thermal relief and stack up in very well known locations?
Now lets go a step further.
When the fish over on the East Branch seek thermal relief and traditionally migrate down to the Upper Main Stem, where are they going to go?
Again........................
How long do you think the present fishery will survive?