Question for the gas farmers

[tompg]

I was just wondering if you guys would put wind turbines on your property if an energy company would make a similar arrangement with you as they want to do for the natural gas? Why or why not? Would you do it on your own to be self-sufficient and even sell excess energy to you power utility?

Just wondering and looking for the truth...Nothing more.

Merry Christmas...Tom

 

[Future Fanatic]

I was just wondering if you guys would put wind turbines on your property if an energy company would make a similar arrangement with you as they want to do for the natural gas? Why or why not? Would you do it on your own to be self-sufficient and even sell excess energy to you power utility?

Just wondering and looking for the truth...Nothing more.

Merry Christmas...Tom

Well, ya see Tom, here's one of those situations where it seems you are looking for us to provide some info that you can find fault with and turn on us. I'll bite though, because it is ALL about the truth, right? But unlike last time, in this thread:

http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBullet...-forum/t18480-fracking-fluids-used-roads.html

when you asked these questions:

Do each of you trust the various Gov't agencies to properly monitor gas drilling?

Do each of you trust the federal Gov't to fairly interpret the second amendment?

DO each of you think the federal Gov't can do a better job with health care than say Aetna?

If you think they can do one job and not another can you tell us why? I think that would be very informative.
could you at least comment on the answers I give? I did answer them, and I did ask...

Anyway, sure I would contemplate it. There are many differences with the two scenarios though. First, I "own" the gas on my property. I do not own the wind. My making money from the wind decreases someone else's chance of doing the same thing down wind. I don't know HOW that is regulated. Conversely, my extracting the gas from my property does not infringe on someone else who can do the same thing with the gas THEY own(other than supply and demand).

Second, there is a very good chance that there IS some gas in some formation below my feet. There is also a horrible chance that I live in an area that's good for wind generation of electricity.

Third, if you think the opposition to gas drilling is heavy, you should see how people feel about having windmills on OTHER peoples' properties anywhere near their own. (Hey, why don't you ask uncrowded how he feels about windmills in the Catskills?, really) They'd rather have the coal companies flatten mountains down south than have windmills sticking hundreds of feet in the air in their neighborhoods. Personally, I'd rather have a ten foot gas pipe sticking out of the ground on my property than either a windmill or a flattened mountain, but that's just me.

I've looked into trying windpower for my own personal use. It is VERY expensive. The chances were that I would never break even. I have also looked into water generators. I have several seasonal intermittent streams on my property that could be harnessed by a micro water turbine. There is, or at least was, very little info to be found on the ability to "break even" with that. Even so, unfortunately at the moment, I lack the resources to make that a reality.

So?

 

[tompg]

Future:

Thanks for the response. I've been thinking about micro turbines for streams as well. I bet you could make one pretty easily with some copper wire, a magnet and some parts form the local salvage yard. Get the local boy scouts interested perhaps.

As for the rest, I am always on the prowl for consistency. It's one of my favorite commodities.

I'd be happy to do my best to answer your questions but I don't see any. Below is the response you quote asking for my answers, but I don't see a single question mark or any query of any kind. Make it simple for me for and ask actual questions and I'll do my best to wrap my head around it.

Tom, I'm sitting here trying to categorize the purpose of these questions.
I assume you think I will answer yes to one or more AND no to one or more and then somehow sieze on the hypocrisy.

So against my better judgement... I'll answer your questions trusting you'll answer some of mine...

Starting with number two, because I think it's not worded well. The Constitution is a "living" document. The Supreme Court makes decisions where the word "fairly" might not apply. For instance, the 3/5 Compromise in the Constitution---the Dred Scott case---13th---14th---15th Amendments--- Plessy v. Ferguson---Brown v Board of Education.

To ask if the Supreme Court is fair after a current decision and NOT fair after the PRIOR decision... I'm not sure that fits.

BUT, to answer as best I can, yes, the Supreme Court IS CAPABLE of interpreting the Second Amendment "fairly" whether or not I agree with their decision. Good or bad, even though the intent of the framers is KNOWN, that is not always the basis of the decision of the Supreme Court (for instance, the 3/5 Compromise).

Number Three:
I do not believe that the government can be an EFFECTIVE or EFFICIENT insurance provider. I believe that the government is not able to provide services (that are best suited in the domain of free enterprise) in a cost efficient or uncomplicated way.

I do think that they CAN do better in a regulatory role. I believe that the FDA(although they took some hits with spinach recently ) has served a positive role since it's formation(Upton Sinclair would probably approve(socialist he was, not withstanding)) and doesn't OSHA do a fairly decent job protecting workers?


Now, with number one: "TRUST".... hmmmm.... "PROPERLY"... hmmm...

I believe they CAN. BUT, as I've remarked before, it will take way more MONEY and MANPOWER.​

FF does pose a question to the rest of you to which I would like to see some responses. How would you feel about windmills in the Catskills? I have no problem with them in any way except that good energy days will = bad fly fishing days.

One more note: Windmills aren't like sailboats. You cannot impede your neighbor's ability to harvest some wind power by capturing some for yourself if you are upwind.

Happy Kwanzaa everyone and hope your solstice was right on.

 

[eddavidson9]

One more note: Windmills aren't like sailboats. You cannot impede your neighbor's ability to harvest some wind power by capturing some for yourself if you are upwind.

who taught you physics?

 

[Uncrowded]

It’s always fascinating to gain some insight from a proud proponent of gas drilling...

Couple of questions.

1.) If you don’t “own” the wind, as you said, does that mean you won’t “own” any of the air pollution problems that will arise from gas drilling? How will your “down-wind” neighbors feel when they are exposed to emissions such as those being documented from horizontal gas drilling in Texas – see link from Dallas Morning News:
Toxic emissions linked to health problems in Denton County town of Dish | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Breaking News for Dallas-Fort Worth | Dallas Morning News.

What will you say – sorry dude, I don’t own the air – just the gas.

2.) Also, do you own the groundwater – as in the groundwater that has been polluted in Dimock from other neighbor’s gas wells? Or do you say to your neighbors, sorry dude, I don’t own the groundwater either – it’s just sort of passing under my private property like the wind. But don’t worry – my lease has all sorts of legal protections that include free bottled water for life – just don’t open your mouth when you take a shower…

Guess I'm just wondering if extracting YOUR gas from YOUR property infringes on OUR rights to clean air and water. I know, I know – fracking is perfectly safe. No evidence of any pollution. Ever. Kind of like cigarette smoking circa 1958…

Protect Marcellus Shale | Take Action | Trout Unlimited

 

[tompg]

Walter HG Lewin,

 

[eddavidson9]

Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

 

[tompg]

how large is a turbine wake?

 

[AKSkim]

Before I weigh in on this topic...

Just a question.

Do the wind mills come with wooden shoes?

 

[tompg]

Of course they come with wooden shoes, dykes, legal prostitutes and cannabis for everyone like any good liberal project would.

 

[AKSkim]

Of course they come with wooden shoes, dykes, legal prostitutes and cannabis for everyone like any good liberal project would.

Well, if I am considered a liberal.. then you are part of the Taliban.

Or should I just say Heil TommyToon

 

[tompg]

AK, I did not refer to you as liberal. I called a project laden with Dutch attributes liberal. It was a joke by the way.

Megalomania is dangerous, be careful.

Happy Hanuka.
Tom

 

[Future Fanatic]

It’s always fascinating to gain some insight from a proud proponent of gas drilling...

You gain this insight because I allow you to. YOU don't answer direct questions. I'm not afraid of finding the truth. YOU already KNOW the truth and don't want factual information to muddy the waters, so to speak.

Yeah I know, God loves me.

Couple of questions.

1.) If you don’t “own” the wind, as you said, does that mean you won’t “own” any of the air pollution problems that will arise from gas drilling? How will your “down-wind” neighbors feel when they are exposed to emissions such as those being documented from horizontal gas drilling in Texas – see link from Dallas Morning News:
Toxic emissions linked to health problems in Denton County town of Dish | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Breaking News for Dallas-Fort Worth | Dallas Morning News.

What will you say – sorry dude, I don’t own the air – just the gas.

First of all, I try hard to abstain from using the word "dude".
Have you read the "research" that this article was based on? I bet you haven't. Well, you should. Here:

http://earthworksaction.org/pubs/DishTXHealthSurvey_FINAL_hi.pdf

They did a real random sampling...

Also, the only "odor event" they have listed for a gas well is "a natural gas smell" that causes "headaches, nausea, sinus problems and asthma".

Problem is, natural gas is odorless when it comes out of the ground.

Who the hell did this research? Can any of it be trusted? (given who did it?, EARTHWORKS’ Oil and Gas Accountability Project) I didn't have the patience to look through the rest of it meager 17 pages.

Hey, I also found, that based upon the problems reported like allergies, headaches, congestion and irritated eyes, I've been living in Dish, Texas for the last 20 years.

2.) Also, do you own the groundwater – as in the groundwater that has been polluted in Dimock from other neighbor’s gas wells? Or do you say to your neighbors, sorry dude, I don’t own the groundwater either – it’s just sort of passing under my private property like the wind. But don’t worry – my lease has all sorts of legal protections that include free bottled water for life – just don’t open your mouth when you take a shower…

Hey, Uncrowded, what's in the Dimock water? Do you know? Do you want to make a bet about what's in it? I bet there is nothing "unnatural" in it. What do you think?

Of the people that had their wells affected, how many of them DID NOT sign a lease? Do you know?

Uncrowded, you always point to Dimock, with the wells that have intrusions of METHANE. There MUST be other palces that have polluted wells, given the tens of thousands of drilled wells, yes? I feel bad for those Dimock residents, but given the well casing that NY will require, I think this "Dimock" type of problem is much less likely to happen. Don't you?

Guess I'm just wondering if extracting YOUR gas from YOUR property infringes on OUR rights to clean air and water. I know, I know – fracking is perfectly safe. No evidence of any pollution. Ever. Kind of like cigarette smoking circa 1958…

I've said from the start that accidents WILL happen. I would NEVER say "No evidence of any pollution. Ever." But the two pieces you provide are more than just lacking.

Uncrowded, you DO use natural gas to heat your home and/or cook with, yes?

And are windmills in the Catskills OK? They've got some great spots for high winds and wind farms...

 

[Uncrowded]

I've said from the start that accidents WILL happen. I would NEVER say "No evidence of any pollution. Ever."
...

Oh yeah, that's why they installed those high-tech stream monitors in PA.

What's the acceptable level of accidents, BTW? One fishkill? Two? Twenty? Just wondering.

 

[AKSkim]

What's the acceptable level of accidents, BTW? One fishkill? Two? Twenty? Just wondering.

Shoot, that is just one days count from the snaggers, the mishandling, and PHOTO takers killing trout up there.

You have Monday, Tuesday, then WTF....

 

[Future Fanatic]

Oh yeah, that's why they installed those high-tech stream monitors in PA.

What's the acceptable level of accidents, BTW? One fishkill? Two? Twenty? Just wondering.

I see you at least got to near the end of my post...

Why no answers to the questions?

Hey, speaking of accidents, about 115 people die each day in car accidents, whadya say we start a petition to outlaw cars.

They've killed way more people than frack fluid...

What's an acceptable level of deaths? one human life? Two? Twenty?

That's rhetorical of course...

Yeah, yeah, God love me...